The Soul of and Drama in D&D

[MarkAHart]

Worlds and Monsters has more soul and drama than anything I've read out of D&D in almost a decade. I don't see how anyone can come away from that book and not get tons of inspiration for one's own campaign as well as dozens of ideas for plot hooks for adventure. If 4e is anything like this, then the soul of Dungeons and Dragons is just fine, thank you.

QFT -- well said...

 

[Rechan]

You know, I don't use miniatures at the game I run. But then, I also ignore things like AoOs for the most part.

I see little concern.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Worlds and Monsters has more soul and drama than anything I've read out of D&D in almost a decade. I don't see how anyone can come away from that book and not get tons of inspiration for one's own campaign as well as dozens of ideas for plot hooks for adventure. If 4e is anything like this, then the soul of Dungeons and Dragons is just fine, thank you.

Tangentially, is that possibly the reason why some people decry it? D&D, at least core book-wise, had a "weak" implied canon, so people started to snatch every bit of canon they've got and hence developed a fondness for it - because they've sort of "puzzled" it out, out of loads of snippets.

Now a new implied canon arrives, and all that "snippet gathering" is for naught.

Just a theory, but could it explain some things?

Cheers, LT.

 

[Benimoto]

I agree that the drama of a game is usually, though not exclusively, created by the DM. The soul of a game is a different matter, and while the DM has some say here, I can see that there is a lot of "soul" in the system of certain games themselves. Also, while I'm optimistic about 4th edition, I could see the potential for it to lose parts of the soul of D&D.

What I see as the soul of a game is difficult to put into words, but usually it's parts of the game that you don't notice until you've played a lot of the game. I think the soul of a game consists of the little things that make it unique, and parts of it that you don't appreciate until you've gained a fairly deep understanding of the system. Little idiosyncrasies that don't totally work for you when you're starting out, but you eventually come to understand and respect.

I DM more than I play, but when I play, my favorite characters are Wizards and other spellcasters. What I like about the wizard is the rewarding feeling you get when you've successfully picked the right spells for a given adventure and chose the perfect times to use them. I would consider that feeling, as well as the knowledge of all the weird little idiosyncrasies of the spells in 3.5 to be the soul of that sort of experience, and largely it's independent of the DMing and wholly a product of the 3.5 system.

Anyways, I'm still pretty optimistic about 4th edition, but we'll see if it captures the "soul" of 3rd ed. It certainly won't for all users. We'll just have to hope that there's plenty of new enjoyable stuff for them to make up for it.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Personally, I like the measurements in squares instead of feet. It lends credit to an appeal for international gamers who want to measure in meters. For that matter, if a DM wanted to create some other type of measurement for the game to fit a specific flavor,(let's say "quadrants" as an example) 5 squares of movement could be five quadrants along the battlefield).

What I like about "squares" is that I can pretend it means "yards" (which is pretty close to a meter, but is a length I can visualize). Then suddenly, Poof! The room sizes and hallway widths make more sense!

Obviously, there is a clear marketing effort by WotC to sell miniatures through their DnD franchise and specifically the DnD Minis franchise. It only behooves them to polinatae their products across both revenue channels.

Too bad the booster packs are still random. Worst idea ever, IMO. I'm a D&D player, not a minis collector, and in my game I need 6 orcs, 2 hill giants, a purple worm, 8 gnoll archers, etc. etc. - not whatever WotC feels like selling me.

WotC would get quite a few sales out of me (as opposed to zero) if packs were non-random. I don't like blaming WotC's trading card heritage for poor corporate decision-making, but I think this is a pretty good example of that very thing.

And now, to post to topic ( ):

But it my contention that the real soul and drama of D&D evolved from the imagination of the DMs.

Partly. It also has to come from the players, and the interaction between and among the group as a whole. The PCs aren't there to be entertained; they're equally responsible for the mood and drama at the table as the DM. Burning Wheel has some really inspiring rules for how to implement this mechanically (rules I am trying to adapt into my 3.75/SWSE/Iron Heroes game), but you don't have to have such rules for it to happen (though it really helps).

But as for your contention that soul & drama can't come from the rules, I think that's right. The rules can interfere with soul & drama (by being a headache, or unnecessarily complex), but once a certain threshold of simplicity, clarity and guidance is met, the rules can't offer you any more. It's up to the group to cross the finish line.

What I like about the wizard is the rewarding feeling you get when you've successfully picked the right spells for a given adventure and chose the perfect times to use them. I would consider that feeling, as well as the knowledge of all the weird little idiosyncrasies of the spells in 3.5 to be the soul of that sort of experience,

Very nice post, but what you have accurately noticed and described quite well is not "the soul" of D&D. It's simply the mental state called "Flow", indicating rules mastery (which is why it never happens when you pick up a new game system). Flow can be achieved while doing almost anything, so D&D 3E is hardly unique. Surfers, carpenters, writers, martial artists, factory line workers and even lawyers (like me) can achieve Flow while doing what they do. 4E will be no different, I am sure.

You can read more about Flow here .

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I disagree with what you are saying. The rules (crunch) are there to mathematically balance the fluff of the game. For example look at the wish spell of 2ed- it could rise your stats but it also made you older. Also think of spell materials and spell costs. Think of magic healing, vancian spell system or 1xday powers. The rules is merely the tool that enforces the fluff of the game.
So the rules are important to the soul and drama as you say it.

None of what you mention invokes the soul of the game, nor does it create drama. The rules may offer inspiration for a dramamtic encounter, but without the DM's (and Players') imagination there is no soul (or heart, or whatever you want to call it - sorry MarkAHart, "soul" is an intangible that I find difficult to define).

 

[Spinachcat]

I am not surprised that playtesters found 4e has no soul or drama.

3e was a number crunch munchkinfest without a soul. We did not see heroes, not even characters, just optimized builds. The only good D20 games I played were the ones where the GM threw out half the rules. It's no wonder that Castles & Crusades has such success.

Soul / Drama are absent from games where Balance / Number Crunch rules the game unless the GM viciously battles the rules and the rules lawyers.

 

[LEHaskell]

Hey, even if 4e doesn't have soul, at least it'll have animus.

 

[Dragonblade]

Hey, even if 4e doesn't have soul, at least it'll have animus.

Nice.

 

[Wyrmshadows]

I recall playing the Dragonlance Saga in 1e. 1e was not, in my opinion, a terribly sophisticated game and the rules had some really wonky, arbitrary nonsense in them. Despite that, 1e Dragonlance was (and actually still may be) the most memorable campaign I ever ran. My players and myself lived that campaign, roleplayed (in character) our butts off and it was fantastic and climactic and sometimes quite sad (yep one can be moved deeply in a role-playing game if immersion into both story and character is deep enough).

Anyone who has read my posts knows I am no 4e booster, but I can't possibly imagine that 4e will be worse for roleplaying than 1e.

Great campaigns come from a synergy of good rules, great players and a great DM. When these factors combine in the proper proportions, a majestic confluence of RPing goodness ensues that transcends the rules themselves becoming a vehicle that transforms a mere game into an experience.



Wyrmshadows