D&D 5E The state of 5e Cosmology and the Upcoming Planescape Slipcase

[dave2008]

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that anything that is written for any of the D&D books are due to them needing to be ready for some television or movie thing.

While I agree that has been the case, it seems the new book coming next year, Keys from the Golden Vault, may be going for some synergies with the movie.

1. The are both heist themed
2. The toy line mentions the "Golden Archive" and the book references the "Golden Vault." These may or may not be related.

Now, i just think is a marketing synergy. The D&D movie has a heist theme so they decided to make product that is a bunch of heist adventures. I don't think any real changes have been made to the RPG to accommodate the movie.

PS I don't have any issue with this approach.

 

[Micah Sweet]

While I agree that has been the case, it seems the new book coming next year, Keys from the Golden Vault, may be going for some synergies with the movie.

1. The are both heist themed
2. The toy line mentions the "Golden Archive" and the book references the "Golden Vault." These may or may not be related.

Now, i just think is a marketing synergy. The D&D movie has a heist theme so they decided to make product that is a bunch of heist adventures. I don't think any real changes have been made to the RPG to accommodate the movie.

PS I don't have any issue with this approach.

Do you think they will be actual heist adventures, as opposed to Waterdeep Dragon Heist? I haven't read the new ad copy.

 

[dave2008]

Do you think they will be actual heist adventures, as opposed to Waterdeep Dragon Heist? I haven't read the new ad copy.

I believe that is the intent. It is not a campaign book, but an adventure compilation book. Each adventure is supposed to have a heist theme. From the Amazon page:

"Greetings, adventurer. You’ve snuck in and found a wondrous treasure! Keys From the Golden Vault is a Dungeons & Dragons adventure anthology with a heist at the center of every tale. Nothing else is yet known about the contents of this tome, but keep an eye on your favorite D&D news sources for your first sneak peek inside."

So I'm guessing one or two of those adventures will get it right

 

[Micah Sweet]

I believe that is the intent. It is not a campaign book, but an adventure compilation book. Each adventure is supposed to have a heist theme. From the Amazon page:

"Greetings, adventurer. You’ve snuck in and found a wondrous treasure! Keys From the Golden Vault is a Dungeons & Dragons adventure anthology with a heist at the center of every tale. Nothing else is yet known about the contents of this tome, but keep an eye on your favorite D&D news sources for your first sneak peek inside."

So I'm guessing one or two of those adventures will get it right

I wonder if the actual heists will all have some sort of moral underpinning (ie, robbing from bad people). That seems in keeping with the "hero" stance modern D&D is pushing.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

While I agree that has been the case, it seems the new book coming next year, Keys from the Golden Vault, may be going for some synergies with the movie.

1. The are both heist themed
2. The toy line mentions the "Golden Archive" and the book references the "Golden Vault." These may or may not be related.

Now, i just think is a marketing synergy. The D&D movie has a heist theme so they decided to make product that is a bunch of heist adventures. I don't think any real changes have been made to the RPG to accommodate the movie.

PS I don't have any issue with this approach.

The Prison Revel's End in your Icewind Dale that was featured in Frost Maiden's Tale or whatever that adventure was called was created by Chris Perkins specifically for the Honor Among Thieves movie.

 

[dave2008]

I wonder if the actual heists will all have some sort of moral underpinning (ie, robbing from bad people). That seems in keeping with the "hero" stance modern D&D is pushing.

Possibly. Though I feel like D&D has always had a "hero" stance. At least that is how I have felt since I started playing in the '80s. So I am not sure this will be anything different than standard D&D. That being said, since there will be several adventures around this theme I would think they would try to tackle it a few different ways.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Possibly. Though I feel like D&D has always had a "hero" stance. At least that is how I have felt since I started playing in the '80s. So I am not sure this will be anything different than standard D&D. That being said, since there will be several adventures around this theme I would think they would try to tackle it a few different ways.

I would hope so, as stealing is generally not a heroic act.

 

[DEFCON 1]

While I agree that has been the case, it seems the new book coming next year, Keys from the Golden Vault, may be going for some synergies with the movie.

1. The are both heist themed
2. The toy line mentions the "Golden Archive" and the book references the "Golden Vault." These may or may not be related.

Now, i just think is a marketing synergy. The D&D movie has a heist theme so they decided to make product that is a bunch of heist adventures. I don't think any real changes have been made to the RPG to accommodate the movie.

PS I don't have any issue with this approach.

Doing synergies is one thing if you can get lucky and have no delays on either side. But I seriously doubt there will be anything in any of these adventures that the movie producers took or that Hasbro executives gave to make sure the D&D movie "matched" what the book has.

But that's much different than the people who are saying that there's some grand command from up on high at Hasbro telling the D&D designers to put X, Y, and Z in some book so that it can be used at some future point in a movie or tv show. Those kinds of comments are ridiculous.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I wonder if the actual heists will all have some sort of moral underpinning (ie, robbing from bad people). That seems in keeping with the "hero" stance modern D&D is pushing.

So, exactly what Dragon Heist does. The adventure has 4 possible antagonists and all of them are bad people. I think one of them is Chaotic Neutral (Jarlaxle Baenrae), but all of the rest are solidly evil (Xanathar, the Cassalanters, Manshoon).

And I agree with @dave2008. D&D has basically always had a "hero" stance for its adventures.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, exactly what Dragon Heist does. The adventure has 4 possible antagonists and all of them are bad people. I think one of them is Chaotic Neutral (Jarlaxle Baenrae), but all of the rest are solidly evil (Xanathar, the Cassalanters, Manshoon).

And I agree with @dave2008. D&D has basically always had a "hero" stance for its adventures.

Not always, and not all the time, but for a while, certainly.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Doing synergies is one thing if you can get lucky and have no delays on either side. But I seriously doubt there will be anything in any of these adventures that the movie producers took or that Hasbro executives gave to make sure the D&D movie "matched" what the book has.

But that's much different than the people who are saying that there's some grand command from up on high at Hasbro telling the D&D designers to put X, Y, and Z in some book so that it can be used at some future point in a movie or tv show. Those kinds of comments are ridiculous.

Higher ups aren't needed, the folks behind the movie and likely future movies and tv shows have direct access to the game designers for questions and requests.

The movie directors asked Chris Perkins if FR had any Prisons with a specific set of parameters, there wasn't (at least as far as Chris Perkins knew), so he just made one in Icewind Dale and added it to the Adventure he was working on.

The Directors given got consulting credit for the book.

So it's not impossible that there was some kind of direct collabration I'm the upcoming adventure anthology between designers and directors etc...

 

[ersatzphil]

Between Planescape and March of the Machine in 2023

Wait, what? Did they announce something?

 

[Voadam]

I still find it weird that 5e considers Eberron part of the same cosmological planar multiverse as the Great Wheel stuff.

The 3.5 Eberron planes and the 3.0 Rokugan ones seemed fairly distinct from the great wheel cosmology to me.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

I still find it weird that 5e considers Eberron part of the same cosmological planar multiverse as the Great Wheel stuff.

The 3.5 Eberron planes and the 3.0 Rokugan ones seemed fairly distinct from the great wheel cosmology to me.

5e Eberron's only a "part of the Great Wheel" in the sense that they created an avenue for the two to connect if a DM wants them to. For all intents and purposes, nothing has really changed.

 

[Incenjucar]

D&D is a multiverse. You can link any settings within it if you want, or keep them separate if you want. You can even have two Sigils that exist in two very different cosmologies if you want. While a material world developed with frequent planar connections would be fine, everything is optional and modifiable, and most things are built in isolation.

 

[DEFCON 1]

D&D is a multiverse. You can link any settings within it if you want, or keep them separate if you want. You can even have two Sigils that exist in two very different cosmologies if you want.

Heh heh, you're absolute right... and in fact it's not even really "can", it's "do". Every single player who runs a game in Sigil is its own different alternate universe version of the plan and location. There are thousands upon thousands of different Sigils already across the Multiverse since the setting was first introduced all those years ago, and even more will come into existence once the books get released next year.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Wait, what? Did they announce something?

March of the Machine is making huge changes to the MtG cosmology, like Realmbreaker the Invasion World Tree the Phyrexians have been growing reconnecting the various Planes for the first time since the mending so the Phryexians can invade other planes.

Plus Sylex made have it's own effect, last time a Sylex was used it lead to the shard happening.

And WotC said they'd merge the D&D and MtG if they found a cool way to do it and they thought they could get away with it.

So it seems obvious that with the weird cosmological changes the Blind Eternities (MtGs multiverse) is under going in March of the Machine, that this the opening they need to connect/merge the multiverses.

All they need to do is say have one of the branches of the Realmbreaker push past the Blind Eternities and right into say Faerun. Or maybe have the Sylex blow a hole in reality itself, a hole that leads to the Great Wheel cosmology.

Planescape is functionally about the cosmology of the D&D multiverse, so if you want start the process of integrating the multiverses it's a good time to start ahead of One D&D next year with this product, even if it's just a couple of paragraphs.

Also it seems clear from Spelljammer, Eberron: Rising From the Last War, and Explorer's Guide to Wildemount and the PHB that there is a goal of maxium cosmological merging.

PHB merged the Great Wheel with the World Axis cosmologies, adding WA's Feywild, Shadowfell, and Elemental Chaos to the GW. EE: RftLW found a way to intergrate Eberron's Orrey into 5e Great Wheel's cosmology. Spelljammer added in Wildspace and Divine Dominions as seperate from outer planes, allowing 4e World Axis Divine Dominions and 3e Forgotten Realms Great Tree Planes (possibly others) to be added to the 5e cosmology. So Planescape could continue along this path, targeting Blind Eternities this timem

Either way that sets things up for 2024, D&D 50th Anniversary (by the Gods let it go better then MtGs 30th year disaster), where MtG settings will likely get mentioned in the One D&D PHB, and maybe the One D&D MM and DMG, oh hell maybe even in some kind of Forgotten Realms Campaign Book if a branch Realmbreaker penerates the Forgotten Realms unleashing some Phyrexians.

 

[Scribe]

by the Gods let it go better then MtGs 30th year disaster

My hope is that the toxicity of this event, makes Wizards keep the 2 distinct.

 

[Dausuul]

Sigh. I hope it ain't so, I hate grand crossovers.

It's not that I have any objection to creating D&D versions of M:tG settings, or M:tG sets based on D&D worlds. That's fine! My problem is when they start altering setting lore to merge them into a single sprawling megasetting.

 

[ersatzphil]

March of the Machine is making huge changes to the MtG cosmology, like Realmbreaker the Invasion World Tree the Phyrexians have been growing reconnecting the various Planes for the first time since the mending so the Phryexians can invade other planes.

Plus Sylex made have it's own effect, last time a Sylex was used it lead to the shard happening.

And WotC said they'd merge the D&D and MtG if they found a cool way to do it and they thought they could get away with it.

Thank you for the writeup! I'll freely admit I'm pretty ignorant of what's happening on the MTG side of the fence. 'March of the Machine' just sounded awful close to 'The Great Modron March'.

Sigh. I hope it ain't so, I hate grand crossovers.

It's not that I have any objection to creating D&D versions of M:tG settings, or M:tG sets based on D&D worlds. That's fine! My problem is when they start altering setting lore to merge them into a single sprawling megasetting.

If I'm honest, I feel the same way. I liked the older approach from 2e/3e - do you want a multiverse setting? D&D can do that, we have Planescape and to a lesser extent the triad of Forgotten Realms / Dragonlance / Greyhawk, Spelljamming inclusive. Do you want a not-multiverse setting? D&D can do that, we have Eberron and to a lesser extent Dark Sun. Even speaking as someone who's quite an advocate for the Great Wheel cosmology, I don't feel the need to slot anything and everything into it. After all, "...there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."