D&D (2024) The state of Multiclass-Dips in One D&D

Ashrym

Legend
Rogue gets ASI at 8th level vs as 1st level fighter:
Fighting style(wotc values this as full feats, but most will barely be enough for a half feat if that. but that is another topic)
medium armor proficiency+shields, that is half feat.
martial weapon proficiency, that is half feat.
second wind, that could be a half feat.

so in total(I will rank fighting style as half feat as it in not worth full feat. not even archery): that is 2 feats(more or less) vs rogues 8th level ASI.

And that same character has to wait longer for every rogue class feature after that. One level later the pure rogue adds sneak attack damage and evasion that the splash doesn't have. The first epic boon is lost completely.

Medium armor does little for a rogue because they are typically dex based anyway. The shield takes away the off hand attack to cut down the chance of landing sneak attacks.

Martial weapons don't matter because of the sneak attack needs to be done with a ranged or finesse weapon. Rogues already have proficiency in all martial weapons that have the finesse quality. The fighter splash adds and average of 1 damage on the die before calculating hit ratios by using a heavy crossbow at range, and using nets.

They're getting second wind and a fighting style instead of a feat. The shield is a damage trade-off but the feat could be defensive duelist anyway, and everything else doesn't help. I'm not really seeing the issue in your example.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Pedantic

Legend
I should probably have actually calibrated my example, instead of responding to the general case with a hypothetical, but the broader point was that higher level class features should be competitive with lower level cross class features and if they aren't, then it should generally be incumbent on the higher level feature to be made better, instead of the lower level feature made less appealing.
 
Last edited:


Horwath

Legend
And that same character has to wait longer for every rogue class feature after that. One level later the pure rogue adds sneak attack damage and evasion that the splash doesn't have. The first epic boon is lost completely.
rogue features coming one level later is a valid argument and needs to be valued as a cost of multiclass.
Epic boon however is irrelevant argument in 99,9% of the cases.
Medium armor does little for a rogue because they are typically dex based anyway. The shield takes away the off hand attack to cut down the chance of landing sneak attacks.
medium armor+shield give more than double chance to utilize magic armor if it comes along. Also with Aim bonus action+shield you can have advantage vs enemy when you are solo in melee with increased survivability and getting a sneak attack.
Martial weapons don't matter because of the sneak attack needs to be done with a ranged or finesse weapon. Rogues already have proficiency in all martial weapons that have the finesse quality. The fighter splash adds and average of 1 damage on the die before calculating hit ratios by using a heavy crossbow at range, and using nets.
Agree partly, but fighter add scimitar to the list, so one more weapon for magic lottery,
heavy crossbow adds 20ft of range in addition to damage, and longbow adds almost double range over crossbow for same damage.
and also 2 more ranged weapons to aim for magic version.
They're getting second wind and a fighting style instead of a feat. The shield is a damage trade-off but the feat could be defensive duelist anyway, and everything else doesn't help. I'm not really seeing the issue in your example.
I'm not saying that is an issue, I'm saying that rogue only gets more out of 1 level of fighter than with ASI/feat.
Is that more overweighted by waiting one level for rogue features? maybe.
 



Ashrym

Legend
Agree partly, but fighter add scimitar to the list, so one more weapon for magic lottery,

Rogues have scimitar proficiency under the play test rules. They have proficiency in any martial weapon with the finesse property.

"Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial Weapons that have the Finesse Property"

Also with Aim bonus action+shield you can have advantage vs enemy when you are solo in melee with increased survivability and getting a sneak attack.

Steady aim is an optional class feature that doesn't exist under the rogue class presented in this play test. Trying to use those supplements complicates the shared spell lists with added spells as well so using those supplements doesn't really work with the the play test rules.

Comparing classes or multiclassing is premature because we're either playtesting and comparing with 5e classes as is or not making a balanced party with the 4 class we have. Or applying mechanics to existing classes. Try an artificer with the playtest spell spell slots and arcane spell list. It's different.
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Upcoming Releases

Top