The State of Our Hobby

[Midknightsun]

Bah, my imagination transcends game systems. Unfortunately it transcends them so much that I have to bend to a ruleset to be fair to everyone else

I'm not worried about our hobby. Like others have said, its been through worse. Frankly, I don't see 4e as a bad thing for the industry at all. I don't see the splintering as necessarily bad either. A little healthy competition is a good thing. It IS a change, and with that comes a degree of uncertainty. But I believe that'll all shake out. Some folks will stay with existing systems, some will move to others, but we're all still gamers.

 

[Pseudopsyche]

But I think both of those thoughts are myopic. I don't think our industry has the clout to withstand so many derivatives. As someone posted in another thread, these games - regardless of the edition/type - are games you play with other people. There needs to be some shared understandings, some norms, between us gamers. Further, the end consumer gains his power via numbers - companies that produce the material we use to game listen to us because we (supposedly) vote with our dollars. Each time our base breaks into a splinter group, we lessen our ability to propel the game forward in a manner that pleases the majority.

These assertions are at the core of the disagreement between the OP and many of those who have responded. I don't have supporting numbers, but I believe that our industry is healthy enough to support more than one major RPG. Shared expectations certainly help people find compatible gaming groups, but in my experience, you have to convert even D&D players anyway, either from other editions of the game or to the kind of game you run.

I understand that sometimes competition doesn't benefit the consumer. The Blu-Ray / HD-DVD struggle burned many consumers. Even then, the market for home video is doing just fine. And our content is easier (more fun) to convert than theirs, and the players are cheaper.

That said, I don't think we're looking at a Blu-Ray / HD-DVD war. Except maybe among the hardest core gamers. Gaming will be just fine. WotC will be fine. Paizo will be around for a while, too. It's going to be okay, I promise.

 

[EATherrian]

This is an incredibly unrealistic expectation.

I hate the 'corporate' argument; As a musician, I hear it all the time. Sure, there's a lot of shallow, mass produced corporate garbage in the world, but just because something is corporate/mainstream/whatever does not mean its devoid of value. I'm not so quick as some to impugn the 4E designers' love of the game, especially after hearing them talk.

Unfortunately, D&D will never 'return to the garages and basement of hobbyists'. If 4E dies out, there will be big problems for the entire PnP industry.

If anyone ever actually listens to your music you become a sell-out. Those are the kinds of rules I see at work here also.

 

[EATherrian]

Funny you should use that analogy. I was thinking last night about how WP appeal for all of us to faithfully join in 4e for the good of the community sounded like some sort of "gaming communism", some bizarre version of We.

"Comrade Psion, I understand you've been reading 3rd Edition again. Don't forget, there is no bard there is only the Warlord. Do not make us return."

 

[Ydars]

I think 4E is about bringing in NEW players; people who have never played pen-and-paper RPGs. This is vital, from a commercial point of view, because the PnP market seems to be contracting as people go and do other things; like play WoW etc.

WoTC are taking a risk with 4E, but they are trying to bring new people in. The D&D community of experienced gamers IS going to fracture, and people who think that Paizo and 3.75 are going to die within a year are probably wrong. I think they will keep that edition alive in a way that was not possible before OGL, and I think they will manage it for a long while, as long as their finances don't betray them; there appear to be LOTS of people who will stay with 3.5/3.75 for a long while, and I respect their reasons. It isn't my cup of tea but good on them.

Fracturing is probably only an issue for Paizo and the 3rd party companies because they are dealing with much smaller numbers. I only hope it doesn't affect their commercial viability.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

I think I need to restate a couple things from my original post.

1) I'm not telling you what edition to like. I'm not insisting you like anything. That'd be arrogant, fruitless, and stupid. What I was trying to express was that the success of 4E is important to all of us, and that its failure would be detrimental to our hobby as a whole. Ergo, if you care about the hobby, and if you agree with such a opinion, you should thusly want 4E to succeed.

2) I do equate WotC to the gaming industry. If you disagree with this assumption, then - yes - all of my other thoughts sorta collapse upon themselves. I understand why folks would not agree with me on this, and I wish I had numbers to prove the case one way or the other.*

3) Lastly, to reiterate one thing: We need new blood in our hobby. Again, if you don't care/disagree, then alot of my other corollaries fall apart as well...

...sorta like any expectation that we could achieve or discuss a sense of community cohesion without slandering certain editions, corporate hiveminds, or talking how D&D left us rather than us leaving it.

W.P.


* One obit for Gary claimed approximately "25 million" D&D players worldwide. I think that's wildly too high. I think the last print runs of Dungeon mag were about 25-30 thousand. Read into those what you will; they're the only numbers I've got.

 

[SavageRobby]

3) Lastly, to reiterate one thing: We need new blood in our hobby. Again, if you don't care/disagree, then alot of my other corollaries fall apart as well...

I disagree with your other assertions, but I don't disagree with this. However, given the current marketing strategies, I don't think companies have much to do with this. Until a company markets the game like TSR did the Basic/Expert boxed sets in the late 70s and early 80s, and gets them into Toy Stores (and not just book stores and game stores), the only way to get new blood is for Gamers to recruit them, get them to the table, and show them how much fun the hobby is - not how cool <insert favorite game here> is, but what the hobby has to offer: having fun at the table, using your imagination, collaborating with others (usually) and facing the risk of death (or worse) to achieve some goal.

A company can't do that. Only other gamers can.

 

[mhensley]

4E: The Unwanted.

By you perhaps, but not unwanted by me. IMO, D&D 3.5 is too complex and broken in many ways. I would be moving on to another game in any case and I can't wait to give 4e a try.

 

[Dave G]

Here's something to think about Wisdom Penalty... I went on ebay and bought a 2nd edition PHB within the last year. Do you know why?

So I could play in a game. I was so desperate I didn't care what game, I have a bookshelf full of 3.0/.5 stuff but these grognards played 2E and they're the only gamers I know here in town.

Now not everyone is going to have the same experience as I do, but the hobby will survive from this point on even if WotC were smacked by a falling satellite (gods forbid!). There are people out there still playing games that weren't designed to be used in long term play! Toon?

Even if this causes a fracture, it's not a schizm. There's no d20 reformation being posted on the doors of the church of Hasbro. And who knows, maybe somewhere out there is the guy who is sitting in his basement looking at books from every edition, shaking his head and saying "no no no no NO! This is how it's done!" and in 10 years people will talk about 4E the way some folks talk about the Skills & Powers version of 2E.

It'll be okay. In this case diversity is okay, the more the merrier, and you know what, if we want to recruit new blood, then go out there and recruit someone! Take personal responsibility for the state of our hobby.

Let us all dust the cheetos crumbs from our bellies.
Let us all march up the stairs out of the basement.
Let us all stop by the bathroom for necessary hygenics.
and then Let us all march into the world to share the joy of gaming with the unfortunate maesses who have yet to experience the joy of a critical hit or a noble death.
LET US GAME!

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

Until a company markets the game like TSR did the Basic/Expert boxed sets in the late 70s and early 80s, and gets them into Toy Stores (and not just book stores and game stores)...

Agreed 100%. You put your finger on something that has eluded me.

You see - us gamers are a giant "pie". When companies try to grab more money, they splinter the pie into smaller slices. That's one way to increase profits, and that's the only way anyone (excepting perhaps WotC) works in our market. Malhavoc, GR, Moongoose - they're all sitting around the table with forks and knives and big gobs of purple pie dripping from their mouths.

Now...you can do something else to make more money. You can enlarge the pie. That's what, I'm hoping, WotC is trying to do with 4E.

Enlarge the pie, hombres. Enlarge the pie.

W.P.