The surprise round and you

[spectacle]

The assassin and the lone guard is exactly the kind of edge case where following the rules strictly can lead to strange outcomes, so it's time for a DM ruling. If the assassin managed to sneak up on the guard I'd simply let him make an attack roll with all benefits of surprise and attacking from hiding. If the guard survives he shouts out an alarm, initiative is rolled and regular combat rounds start.

This would not create any presedence that being the first to declare an attack would get you a "free attack" in other combat situations or anything like that, it would be a one time ruling for this specific circumstance.

 

[Fleetwood C. DeVille]

Thanks to everyone putting in their two coppers. What I think we are seeing is the clash between combat being a narrative vs. combat as a game abstraction. The stealth/surprise/initiative framework is just clunky enough to shock you out of the "movie" playing in your head. It's annoying, but we must have the rules to function. So now anytime I have the drop on a mark but lose initiative, I will chalk it up to the will of Tymora.

 

[Athinar]

I thought of a way to get passed this Surprise and Initiative challenge by adding the difference between the Stealth check vis the Perception Check and then add the difference to the Initiative roll of the Rogue (Assassin)

Failed Stealth check means a negative score to the initiative roll

 

[Athinar]

I can Stealth within 300 feet of the "Mark" with my Halfling Assassin (Sharp Shooter Feet) and get the drop on it with my invisible arrow with a silence spell cast on the arrow and still lose the initiative and then lose the Assassinate, Sorry this thread has been done so many times....

We don't use the Book for surprise

 

[Flamestrike]

I can Stealth within 300 feet of the "Mark" with my Halfling Assassin (Sharp Shooter Feet) and get the drop on it with my invisible arrow with a silence spell cast on the arrow and still lose the initiative and then lose the Assassinate, Sorry this thread has been done so many times....

We don't use the Book for surprise

The arrow becomes visible once fired. Its entirely possible that the guard 100 meters away notices it in flight in time to attempt to duck out of the way (ruining the assasinate attempt).

Even in this ridiculous outlier, its still narratively possible.

But hey; if you have some kind of ridiculous outlier, thats why you have a DM. In other situations, the book clearly covers what happens when you sneak up on somone and they fail to notice you and you decide to attack them. Initiative is rolled, surprise determined, and then turns are taken in initiative order. Any unaware combatants dont get a turn on round 1.

This is neither hard to understand, nor is it hard to narrate.

 

[jrowland]

Based upon a recent Sage Advice and from the opinions of many people here on the boards... the answer would be 'Yes'.

Based upon the personal rulings of many other people here on these boards who find that situation to be the utmost in stupidity and who aren't afraid to actually let the Assassin character use his abilities... the answer would be 'No'.

I've modified at my table to try and merge these two opinions (well, to end stupidity and to keep close to the rules):

Everyone rolls initiative just as the OP describes, But the "Triggering" creature/event/whatever goes first at their initiative. So in the OP's scenario, round 1 BEGINS at initiative count 6. The enemies are surprised and have not acted yet in the round. At the top of round 2, the guards end their surprise (well, technically end surprise...a bolt stuck in the arse is damn surprising!) and the Assassin goes again.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

BTW, you can't cast silence on an object. It is a fixed area that does not move. Just sayin'...

 

[ad_hoc]

The arrow becomes visible once fired. Its entirely possible that the guard 100 meters away notices it in flight in time to attempt to duck out of the way (ruining the assasinate attempt).

Even in this ridiculous outlier, its still narratively possible.

But hey; if you have some kind of ridiculous outlier, thats why you have a DM. In other situations, the book clearly covers what happens when you sneak up on somone and they fail to notice you and you decide to attack them. Initiative is rolled, surprise determined, and then turns are taken in initiative order. Any unaware combatants dont get a turn on round 1.

This is neither hard to understand, nor is it hard to narrate.

Not only that but it is also a common trope in stories with assassins/ninjas.

The most common form where it is played straight is the monk who catches the weapon at the last second.

It can also be played for laughs such as the target bending down to tie their shoe or sneezing.

Either way, it happens all the time in stories.

 

[Ahglock]

The arrow becomes visible once fired. Its entirely possible that the guard 100 meters away notices it in flight in time to attempt to duck out of the way (ruining the assasinate attempt).

Even in this ridiculous outlier, its still narratively possible.

But hey; if you have some kind of ridiculous outlier, thats why you have a DM. In other situations, the book clearly covers what happens when you sneak up on somone and they fail to notice you and you decide to attack them. Initiative is rolled, surprise determined, and then turns are taken in initiative order. Any unaware combatants dont get a turn on round 1.

This is neither hard to understand, nor is it hard to narrate.

Can narrate. Sure. Narrate well I haven't seen it yet. Just because you narrate a story doesn't mean it makes any sense. Noticing something at the last second is all well and good. That's a perception check not a dex check.

Enough rules and class abilities are tied to this that I don't bother fixing it, but it makes no sense to me.

 

[Athinar]

My 1st and 2nd Ed days came back to me, sorry

Silence
For the duration, no sound can be created within or pass through a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on a point you choose within range. Any creature or object entirely inside the sphere is immune to thunder damage, and creatures are deafened while entirely inside it.

But...

So the point in space that is within range is an object, and no where in the spell does it say that it is stationary