The talismanic lure of high levels

[Altalazar]

I like playing up to the higher levels (for certain characters especially) for the chance to start getting into the world-building aspect of it. Building a castle. Founding a city. Building a nation. That is just not something you can do at low levels.

I like the character advancement and development as well.

The highest level character I've played with in AD&D only got to 17th level.

I don't recall now how high I've gotten in 3E - it has been a while. I don't recall where I stopped at the few campaigns I ran. I think around 9th level - but that was just because I started law school and no longer had time to run.

One of these days I'm going to go through all of my characters and put them online for the hell of it.

 

[mmadsen]

I like playing up to the higher levels (for certain characters especially) for the chance to start getting into the world-building aspect of it. Building a castle. Founding a city. Building a nation. That is just not something you can do at low levels.

Why not?

 

[Geoff Watson]

I like playing up to the higher levels (for certain characters especially) for the chance to start getting into the world-building aspect of it. Building a castle. Founding a city. Building a nation. That is just not something you can do at low levels.

Why not?
In my Fields of Blood campaign the regents are only 6th level, and they run kingdoms, lead armies, etc.

Geoff.

 

[Altalazar]

Why not?
In my Fields of Blood campaign the regents are only 6th level, and they run kingdoms, lead armies, etc.

Geoff.

First off, 6th isn't low, it is medium, so already you are starting to get some power there.

Your typical PCs, starting out at first level, will have barely enough wealth to clothe themselves and get basic equipment. They'll have zero followers. Zero real power. Zero lands.

Of course, you could design a campaign where they were all nobles who started off with power and such, but then that kind of defeats the purpose of building your own.

I like the concept of starting with nothing and building an empire. That is part of the lure of getting to higher levels for me.

And it is hard to do that at first level. Especially when a kobold with a lucky hit can kill you.

 

[mmadsen]

First off, 6th isn't low, it is medium, so already you are starting to get some power there.

Altalazar, hong's argument is that high-, medium-, and low-level are arbitrary designations. If you declare 20th-level high-level, then the movers and shakers of the world will likely be 20th-level (with all the superpowers entailed therein). If you declare 10th-level high-level, then the movers and shakers of the world will likely be 10th-level. If you declare 5th-level high-level, then the movers and shakers of the world will likely be 5th-level -- not personally powerful for a typical D&D campaign, but as powerful as anyone else in their world...and politically powerful too.

I like the concept of starting with nothing and building an empire. That is part of the lure of getting to higher levels for me.

Sure, but we can just redefine some other number to be high-level. Your goal could be to build an empire by 10th-level.

 

[Altalazar]

Altalazar, hong's argument is that high-, medium-, and low-level are arbitrary designations. If you declare 20th-level high-level, then the movers and shakers of the world will likely be 20th-level (with all the superpowers entailed therein). If you declare 10th-level high-level, then the movers and shakers of the world will likely be 10th-level. If you declare 5th-level high-level, then the movers and shakers of the world will likely be 5th-level -- not personally powerful for a typical D&D campaign, but as powerful as anyone else in their world...and politically powerful too.

Sure, but we can just redefine some other number to be high-level. Your goal could be to build an empire by 10th-level.

And that may even be doable. But you aren't going to see low level adventurers building an empire. They are simply too weak with too few resources for that to happen. Even if you try and make it by 10th level, by 6th level you'd be more than halfway there.

But then to build an empire you need armies, you need allies, you need probably tens of thousands or even millions of gold pieces worth of wealth in one form or another. It is not something you're going to accumulate very quickly.

 

[Snoweel]

Ah, d00d, you're maiking too many assumptions.

Sure "armies, allies and... millions of gold pieces" aren't accumulated quickly, but assuming a 5th- or 10th- (or whatever-) level cap, you won't accumulate xp quickly either and thus by the time you accumulate enough wealth and political pull to build said empire, you might only be 10th level.

Level caps are all about changing the rates of progression (xp, wealth, et al), relative to each other.

 

[I'm A Banana]

But then to build an empire you need armies, you need allies, you need probably tens of thousands or even millions of gold pieces worth of wealth in one form or another. It is not something you're going to accumulate very quickly.

Dragon just died of old age, and the party of PC's, lovable scamps no older than 12, stumble upon their hoard. Let's say they all have one level, and let's say that the entire kingdom has pretty much only a few NPC classes (2nd level expert old dood is the highest level mook in the city), and are easily bluffed by the PC Bard with 16 Charisma....(take 10!)

Suddenly, the PC's can build castles, and they're not even pubescent. The DM defines when the world allows you to build a castle, not an arbitrary level number.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Birthright.

 

[Snoweel]

The DM defines when the world allows you to build a castle, not an arbitrary level number.

Ok, you're absolutely right according to Rule #0, but said rule doesn't count on internet discussion boards (otherwise how would we ever have any arguments?)

And according to the DMG, every PC has a total wealth value based entirely on their level.