The "That sounds better" syndrome

[Greenfield]

Ive noticed over the years that if I want to implement some totally mad scheme in game, it's easier to get DMs and other players to buy into it if I precede it with an even more mad plan, then trim back to the slightly-less insane version.

For example...
[sblock]In our current game, we're trying to bring back a PC who should be beyond recovery. He died, and challenged the Wild Hunt in a run for his life. He didn't make it, and so became one of the Sluagh, the hounds of the Wild Hunt.

This is actually a side mission though. We're actually on course to take down an enemy fortress where the bad guys are performing ritual sacrifice to power magic item crafting.

The Big Bad in charge had a front man, a fall guy to take the blame. Said fall guy died recently (at the hands of the real Big Bad). Then the Big Bad died, right in front of the Wild Hunt, at the gates to the afterlife. He issued a Challenge, bidding to do that same "run for your life" that the fallen PC failed at.

The party Druid offered, at the same time, to Challenge on behalf of an innocent he'd killed. The offer was accepted by the Horned King (leader of the Hunt), but declined by the innocent, whose spirit was there.

The Druid then offered to run for the fallen PC. The Horned King hesitated, so my PC offered to run as well. It was accepted.

Now, the mad plan is to try and help the Big Bad in this Hunt. His plans are ruined, and if he makes it he still faces the King's dungeons or a life on the run. But he has information we want. So we work together and try and get everyone through.

The really mad plan is to lead the Hunt to the dark fortress, where the howls of the Sluagh (an enhanced Shadow Mastiff) will drive the defenders into panic and chaos.

Said defenders have a hyper-sensitive perimeter security, and have a "Shoot first, ask questions never" attitude. If we can lead the Hunt there, and they attack the Hunt as trespassers, they're so fried. Rules of the Hunt are simple:

1) Prey have to evade the Hunt until dawn to win.
2) Anyone who interferes, either to aid the prey or hinder the Hunt becomes fair game for the Sluagh,

Did I mention that the Horned King is a Celtic deity named Vandos? Mortals don't fight deities and win.

Now this is absolutely insane, and presumes that we can evade the Hunt well enough to lead them, rather than be driven by them, that we can travel over 50 miles in one night, in the dark, over rough terrain, and that we can time it well enough that the Hunt will be the ones the perimeter security runs into instead of us, and finally that the Hunt will somehow end up doing our dirty work for us.

So the relatively minor insanity of getting Big Bad to sell out his companions seems sane by comparison. [/sblock]

Do you ever try this sort of thing? Or is it DM abuse?

 

[Sekhmet]

Average human walking speed is about 2-4MPH, which lessens in over rough terrain.
You simply won't be able to make it 50 miles without being at a run the entire time. You probably aren't all cross country runners, and you probably don't all have constitution scores to keep running.

With that being said: Druid Elemental Shapes into an Air Elemental, makes it no problem.


Back to the topic.
Yes, it's called bargaining. Throw out an absurd offer and talk your way down to what you actually want, making it sound like it is a bargain.

 

[Ragmon]

Seems legit to me...

IMO you can run any which way you want, and if anything happens to the hunt in the process its not your fault.

 

[kitcik]

It's effective at work, even at compensation time.


(Hint: start by asking for a paid sabbatical.)

 

[Greenfield]

Average human walking speed is about 2-4MPH, which lessens in over rough terrain.
You simply won't be able to make it 50 miles without being at a run the entire time. You probably aren't all cross country runners, and you probably don't all have constitution scores to keep running.

With that being said: Druid Elemental Shapes into an Air Elemental, makes it no problem.


Back to the topic.
Yes, it's called bargaining. Throw out an absurd offer and talk your way down to what you actually want, making it sound like it is a bargain.

Well, while we've taken Teleport out of the game, there are still ways to make it in the time available. But we need to be able to lead the Sluagh along a few minutes behind, and that's a bigger problem.

The Ranger/Druid is a Ranger 5/Druid 7, so he isn't doing any Elemental shaping. We can both sprout wings and go, but even that won't get us there in time.

The place is a day's travel away, by horseback. Light horses cover 60 feet per round at a walk, and 48 miles a day, adjusted for terrain. We are talking Scotland, in case I didn't make that clear, so there are hills and moors between us and where we're going.

When my character takes a winged form (Avarial Elf), he can only do it for two hours per spell, and his flight speed is 50 per round, which is actually slower than the horse's walking speed.

The Druid would choose Hawk or Eagle, for 80 feet per round or 64 miles a day. He could make it, presuming that he can avoid being shot down for that period of time. And yes, while the hounds of the Sluagh don't fly, the huntsmen each have a Phantom Steed, which means they fly faster than we do.

So unless we pull a rabbit out of our hat (several very fast, saddle-broken rabbits), we aren't leading the Hunt to that fortress in one night.

But since that was never really the plan...

Side story: The Big Bad was part of a cabal that was having a contest: See who could take over/tear down and replace an empire, and rule the world.

Their initial play required teamwork, but at this stage he's in a race with the others, and he just got set back before square one. The only way he has a chance in their contest is if someone (whistles innocently) were to identify and obstruct the other contestants in his game.

Obviously there's a lot more to the "Evil Plot for World Conquest" (tm) than this, but it touches on the key points.

So my job is to wheedle the info out of him, convincing him that it's in his best interests to betray the entire conspiracy.

Did I mention that the "real plan" was also head-bangingly insane?

 

[anest1s]

a scroll of Wind Walk :: d20srd.org or Transport via Plants :: d20srd.org ? Leave notes behind to tell them where you are heading?

 

[Greenfield]

I'm not sure that Wind Walk is available in the time we have. We have an amulet with Transport vie Plants once per day. The Druid is looking for a scroll of Tree Stride, which is sort of a lesser Transport Via Plants.

We also have access to Shadow Walk, though that's risky. The Plane of Shadows is the native realm for the Sluagh, and using it as a shortcut is insanely dangerous.

Now the Huntsmen have Discern Location three times a day, so no matter how far you blip, they can come right after you. They generally won't unless you try some instant transport ability, since it's against the spirit of the hunt.

So we have to guess how much we can fudge the rules before they start fudging right back. And the simple fact is, they've been doing this longer, and they're better at it.

 

[Empirate]

May I say this sounds like an awesome campaign to me, even though I have nothing constructive to add?