Ah, I see. That's indeed the one I've been thinking of, thanks!
Now I'm really interested in the Avalon Hill version of the game - I don't suppose it's still in print, or is it?
The top Avalon Hill boardgames...
- Thread starter MerricB
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Now I'm really interested in the Avalon Hill version of the game - I don't suppose it's still in print, or is it?
Sadly, it isn't. And the game rights to Dune are *particularly* hard to acquire and keep. (Matt could actually probably tell us more, since he was doing lots of Dune CCG support back in the day). After LUG got acquired by Wizards and the Kevin J Anderson/Brian Herbert novels started coming out, the RPG/boardgame license disappeared and we haven't seen it since.
Fantasy Flight Games is - as I recall - planning to do a new Dune-like game: same mechanics, different universe. Unfortunately, it isn't Dune!
There are files on boardgamegeek which would probably allow you to construct your own copy, but otherwise you're looking at a 2nd hand copy. (And it's something of a grail game - very hard to fnd and quite expensive).
Cheers,
Merric
Jan van Leyden
Adventurer
Funny: I own or have played exactly 13 of your 26-position-list, plus maybe 10-12 more AH games.
I find it interesting that a lot of the titles I know were published under license and are no original AH designs. Especially if you're not looking at the wargames.
I find it interesting that a lot of the titles I know were published under license and are no original AH designs. Especially if you're not looking at the wargames.
Wik
First Post
Diplomacy is the best game ever made. What makes it awesome is not so much the game, but the atmosphere the game creates.
I have hired spies (read as: people in the house you're in who are bored and not playing the game). I have fed people misinformation (leave notes in the bathroom, ostensibly for one player, and then let slip that you are doing this to another player, who then picks up your information and assumes it to be true). I have deliberately made miscues.
Unfortunately, I tend to assume my opponents play the same way, which gets me paralyzed by inaction - I see Russia moving his troops forward to attack me, and I assume it's actually a bluff to force England into attacking France early. And then I'm suprised when Russia attacks me the next turn.
I have hired spies (read as: people in the house you're in who are bored and not playing the game). I have fed people misinformation (leave notes in the bathroom, ostensibly for one player, and then let slip that you are doing this to another player, who then picks up your information and assumes it to be true). I have deliberately made miscues.
Unfortunately, I tend to assume my opponents play the same way, which gets me paralyzed by inaction - I see Russia moving his troops forward to attack me, and I assume it's actually a bluff to force England into attacking France early. And then I'm suprised when Russia attacks me the next turn.
Croesus
Adventurer
Like Crothian, it has been some time since I played many AH games, so a lot of this is from memory.
First, I'm rather surprised that I've only played eight from your list. I notice that Third Reich isn't on the list, nor is Rail Baron, Victory in the Pacific, and several others we played constantly. Different tastes and all that...
Civilization was fun, though it took several games to learn how to transition from the the the early game to mid game to end game. I don't remember any of us really mastering this one.
Dune - chalk me up as another fan boy of this one. We played this one even more cutthroat than Diplomacy, and as MC has said, there's always something new to discover. I really wish someone would print a few thousand additional copies so the rest of us could get one (we played a friend's copy, so I don't have my own).
Up Front - We enjoyed this one, but preferred Naval War.
Squad Leader - We never played the Advanced version. The original was good, but suffered from all of AH's tactical games - determining line of sight could be a real pain at times. Also very subject to getting hot/cold dice - bad luck on a few morale rolls and you're toast. I still remember when we learned how to use smoke to infiltrate buildings (the German player was not amused...
)Diplomacy - I disagree with the earlier comments. This game is much more fun with friends than strangers. Just be sure everyone knows going in that stabbing someone in the back is a normal part of the game (but not required). And have something else available for people to do as they are wiped out.
Titan - I remember two things about this one. We loved the game. And we never, never, never finished a game. Finally stopped playing when we realized we'd be old and gray before a game actually came to an end.
Russian Campaign - Very flawed, abstract game. Loads of fun, we used to play this with three players (two German, one in the North, one in the South). We very rarely saw the Germans defeated. I still remember the one game where, as the German player, I suddenly realized I no longer had enough units to keep attacking and moved onto the defensive. The shift literally occurred in one turn, the change of initiative happening that quickly. In a typical game, if the German can simply keep from losing many units while attitioning the Russian, the game is usually over by late 1942.
Wooden Ships and Iron Men - Potentially a fun game with a very clunky system for playing. I understand why we used written orders and such, but very tedious. This is clearly a game that would play much better on a computer than on a board. I just always felt this was a game with 15 minutes of fun for roughly every hour spent playing.
Victory in the Pacific would have been the next game in the list (#27, ranked #521 on BGG), Third Reich is #39 (#752), and Rail Baron is #50 (#1009 on BGG).
Some of the games haven't aged that well and have been replaced by newer designs; others are just too "monster" for some.
Rail Baron is the biggest casualty of this: there are a lot of train games on the market at present: Age of Steam, Railways of the World, Steam, Ticket to Ride, the 18XX series, Chicago Express, the Empire Builder series. Pretty much all of them appeal to the train-lovers and play quicker than Rail Baron.
Cheers!
Mark CMG
Creative Mountain Games
I love that original version of Civilization. Have you tried Kingmaker, Merric?
Kingmaker | Board Game | BoardGameGeek
Kingmaker | Board Game | BoardGameGeek
Yes, I have. It's got this great early and middle game, and an erratic endgame where you probably end up turtleing because to attack is normally to lose. (I've written a session report for it that you can find here).
Interesting design, although seems somewhat creaky today.
Cheers!
Mark CMG
Creative Mountain Games
Yes, I have. It's got this great early and middle game, and an erratic endgame where you probably end up turtleing because to attack is normally to lose. (I've written a session report for it that you can find here).
Interesting design, although seems somewhat creaky today.
Cheers!
I think you rather missed some of the strategies that make Kingmaker far more manageable and intriguing, if I may use that word.
First, you definitely want to avoid relying on nobles (or nobles with particular offices) that have obligations that can call them away. Second, once you have a top heir (or the highest left), no doubt you want to avoid battles where you can lose him (or her) and where nobles can get killed and greatly weaken your position. Third, and this isn't really something you could have done much about at the time, you want to play this game with lots of people, five, six, seven, or even more if you can do so.The obligations are something you go into with eyes open, but the temptation of using such nobels/offices because of their strengths, which many have, can lure inexperienced players into over relying on them. That's not really a flaw of the game. The unpredicatability of the battle outcomes, particularly in regard to noble deaths, makes it very clear early on in for new players, that battling is not a clear, if even the best, path toward victory. It's possible but very risky. The key is often in securing an heir and making sure none of the others makes it to the end of the game. Plus, be sure to understand that a shared victory is probably much more likely and certainly more frequent from my experience than a single player victory.
I'd recommend gaving the game another try, while letting all players know the risks up front, and do try to play with six or seven players. I think you'll find it a very different endgame while still enjoying the early and middle games, too.
I daresay we did. Alas, I don't own a copy, so I'll have to rely on Neil bringing it in again (and me having the time and not having 10 other boardgames to play).
Oh, heck with it! I've just ordered a copy from e-bay for a reasonable price. We'll likely play it again in a few weeks time.
Cheers!
Oh, heck with it! I've just ordered a copy from e-bay for a reasonable price. We'll likely play it again in a few weeks time.
Cheers!
