D&D General The Tyranny of Rarity

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Thomas Shey

Legend
How cosmopolitan can an area be with a short list of non-human races?

Fairly, depending on where it is. After all, while not as isolated as people like to think, there's a lot of history where people might well have known that Asian people exist without ever having seen one, just because of travel distances.
 

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Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
True, but real world analogies fail imo when you add a bipedal lizard to the mix. No way are most people going to shrug and move on if such a being is unique.
 

Oofta

Legend
I think you are conflating avoiding a mechanical hang-up (flying at low level) with a locked down set of options.

Would you allow me to play an aarakokra(sp?) in your game if I didn't use my innate flight power?

If yes...your hangup is flying.
If no....your hangup is wanting a tightly curated list.
Why is it a "hangup"? For that matter what could you get out of a aarakocra that doesn't fly that you couldn't get from an accepted race?

What harm does it do to accept that the DM has a vision of the world that doesn't include birdmen?
 


guachi

Hero
My favorite campaign was also the most restrictive. In college we had a great DM and a good stable of players. For a while, the DM would come up with an idea and get buy-in from some people in the group.

All the campaigns were fun, but several didn't last very long. They burnt out after a few months. But the most restrictive campaign, based in Harn, lasted several years. The low magic, low PC power campaign forced us to focus on events. It was a blast. It was so fun that when I moved away for a year the DM kept my PC on as an NPC until I returned.

I'm all for restrictions now. They focus a campaign.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
@Stormonu Well said. It's honestly surprising how many folks respond to this with either a blatant slippery-slope argument, or a really strange false dichotomy argument. A little creativity--indeed, a little bit of Gygaxian thinking, dare I say--is more than enough to preserve the traditionalist purity many DMs seek.

While I see what you're getting at here and to some extent agree, the inherent risk is that you'll run aground* on table mechanics: "Hey, she's got one of those to play, I want one too!", meaning that thing that until a moment ago was a complete one-off either a) suddenly has to be duplicated or b) is liable to cause resentment at the table.
Don't see how you couldn't run that with the same thing? Two people want to play minotaurs. Boom, a brother and sister (or some other familial, platonic, romantic, economic, military/political, or religious relationship) who were cursed for stealing from the Temple of the Sacred Bull, or who pissed off a witch, or who were afflicted from birth with a strange curse, or...

I mean, after all, the literal mythical Minotaur of Greek myth was a one-off creature himself, as indeed were the vast majority of interesting not-fully-human creatures of myth.

More broadly, I also very much want to avoid the end-result effect where an adventuring party resembles the Star Wars cantina on feet.
People often use this as a disparagement. I don't understand why. Adventurers are already weird, likely to be subject to strange curses (or blessings...or both), consorting with dangerous or capricious powers, delving into knowledge and locations Man Was Not Meant To Know, wearing bits of bling stolen from dead people or recovered from seven different ancient cultures without a care in the world about fashion, etc.

Besides...do you really have literally all five/six/whatever (I believe you've said you tend to have larger groups?) players insisting on playing races of such dramatic physiological differences? Even if you don't, are you actually avoiding the "cantina effect" anyway? For goodness' sake, if you have a human, a dwarf, an elf, a halfling, and a half-orc--all races with extremely long pedigree and well-established long before things like tieflings or (heaven forbid) dragonborn--you ALREADY have "the Star Wars cantina on feet." You have inhuman colors (especially if that elf is a drow), inhuman sizes, probably obvious tusks and other non-human facial features (pointed ears, for example, are commonly assigned to all of those non-human races), a high probability of significantly divergent build or muscle mass (indeed, all of these races are held to have noticeably distinct silhouettes from the typical range of human shapes, except maybe elf and half-orc).

Like...even if you literally restrict things to just the "core four" races, you already kinda have this effect unless your players agree to mostly play humans. Which...if you already have that agreement, I don't see how letting one or two people deviate from it changes anything.

Which is what ties into the comments I made above. On the one hand, you could be presenting a slippery-slope argument: "if I let one player have anything Exotic™, then soon every player will have a psychic flumph half-dragon from another reality and nothing will be special anymore." This suffers from the exact problems that any slippery-slope argument has, namely, that you haven't actually proved that this chain of events must occur. Even if you have personally seen it occur in the past, you can do something about it, it's absolutely not a guaranteed inevitable result no matter what you, the poor beleaguered DM who just wants a nice, normal, safe, traditional, unexceptional, ordinary, standardized campaign, could ever conceivably do.

On the other, you could be presenting a false dichotomy: "Either I let everyone play anything whatsoever, or I perfectly hard-restrict everyone to a single list of choices with zero exceptions." On this one, the very arguments used in favor of things like 5e (or old-school editions) take your argument down for me. Isn't the whole point of "rulings not rules" and "DM calls the shots, the rules are always provisional" supposed to be that you not only can but should make ad-hoc exceptions in order to "improve the game"? Why would player race choices be any different? Either make it a first-come, first-served sort of thing, or a lottery if several players want it, or (if you have a relatively high turnover of parties and/or PCs), have it go round-robin.

Heck, that last option even lets you enhance the resistance to your dreaded "Star Wars cantina on feet" problem: One, and only one, player gets to play an "exotic" race at any given time...and a single player cannot play an "exotic" race again until everyone has gotten to play one, and "exotic" races can't be resurrected. If you lose the character, it's gone forever, and then the next person on the round robin has the opportunity to play something "exotic" if they like. Or, alternatively, to prevent perverse incentives to seek death when one's opportunity is up, the remaining players who want to play something "exotic" get the opportunity to roll to see if they can make a new character with an "exotic" race, e.g. those who want to play one and haven't gotten to yet this time around roll a d6 every time their character dies, and on a 6, they can create an "exotic" race character. Now you have a fair system, with no perverse incentives to cause players to suicide a character just to play something fancy, and it not only naturally enforces a no-cantina rule, it even forces there to be downtime between "exotic" party members so there's always some periods where all characters are so-called "normal."

* - I speak from experience here, and have had these discussions. Perhaps fortunately for me, the player of the one-off character was a real Leroy Jenkins type and ran it straight into its grave, whereupon the desirability of playing that species dropped considerably... :)
Don't see why you couldn't have a frank conversation with your players about it. "You can't because I want anything of this kind to be actually rare and unusual. One of something is, literally, unique. Two of something implies too much. She asked first, so she gets to be a special thing. If it matters enough to you, you can request to be the one exceptional creature in the party next time." Or, as noted above, make a simple system to enforce the scarcity you desire. I didn't spend five minutes coming up with the above, I'm sure if it's not adequate for you then you could easily come up with something better, seeing as you apparently have players very eager to play "exotic" races.

Further, you've made it pretty clear that you can set effective, well-communicated boundaries for your players. After the various conversations we've had over the years, you have never struck me as the type to get steamrolled by your players (or by anybody, really). If they are so petty or so vengeful that "she got a special thing and I didn't" is enough to actually cause serious friction in your group, I can't help but wonder how the group has managed to stay coherent for so long (or, if you regularly play with pick-up groups, I would have serious doubts about whether that group will survive the first two months of play). And if they aren't so petty or vengeful...maybe give them the benefit of the doubt? You may be surprised what a forthright, but respectful, adult conversation can achieve. And if it can't, well, again, not sure that group has a healthy dynamic.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I think you are conflating avoiding a mechanical hang-up (flying at low level) with a locked down set of options.

Would you allow me to play an aarakokra(sp?) in your game if I didn't use my innate flight power?

If yes...your hangup is flying.
If no....your hangup is wanting a tightly curated list.
That's a false dichotomy. Races can be excised for reasons other than tight curation or a racial ability. I don't allow dragonborn. To me dragons are a mighty and rare race, and the presence of weak humanoid dragons diminishes both the might and rarity. For that reason they are gone. I don't have a "hangup" with breath weapons or want a tightly curated list.
 

Stormonu

Legend
So far, most of the focus of discussion has been on PC races. But I'm also curious - what about the monstrous side - the opposition (or help) on the DM's side of the screen?

We all have our favorites when we pick and choose what enemies show up the campaign world. How narrow are your choices when it comes to the player's opponents? Do you stick to only creatures "of the real world" and don't use supernatural enemies (perhaps beyond a Giant version of something)? Do you avoid/never use devils? Dragons are too rare and mighty to waste on adventurers? Not gonna use a 3rd party product because it's "not D&D" or perhaps the monsters in Volo's don't suit your game? Are there monsters that are common in D&D, but far rarer or unique in your own?

Have you ever excluded monsters because they simply don't fit your vision of the game world, especially if it was something the players wanted to see included for some reason?
 

Oofta

Legend
No offense @Oofta, I think we’re going to fall on the opposite ends of the pole on this one. Which is unusual, because I usually find myself in alignment with your opinion (and respect it quite a bit).

I, personally, used to have very strong opinions about what I allowed for my campaigns. That’s changed a lot, and more rapidly of late. My eldest son often boggles my mind with the things he comes up with, and having such a different interaction with the fantasy he’s grown up with than I had has really made me reconsider my approach to my 80’s-borne campaign world, and the critters upon it - as well as other things about the world.
Meh. Hardly the end of the world that we disagree. If everyone shared the same opinion on everything life would be boring.

I may blow up my world some day and recreate it, but I would have to have a reason to allow any race under the sun. But until then the campaign world I have makes sense to me and if that occasionally means someone is unwilling to join my game, there are plenty of players who will be happy to.

No DM is the best fit for every player and vice versa.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
We all have our favorites when we pick and choose what enemies show up the campaign world. How narrow are your choices when it comes to the player's opponents? Do you stick to only creatures "of the real world" and don't use supernatural enemies (perhaps beyond a Giant version of something)? Do you avoid/never use devils? Dragons are too rare and mighty to waste on adventurers? Not gonna use a 3rd party product because it's "not D&D" or perhaps the monsters in Volo's don't suit your game? Are there monsters that are common in D&D, but far rarer or unique in your own?
I tend to make the vast majority of monsters very, very rare. If they were anything else, the sheer numbers of nasty monsters would mean the civilized races died out thousands of years ago. I also don't like repeating rare monsters often. If I use mind flayers in a campaign, it will be 3-5 campaigns(about a year each) at a minimum, before I even consider using them again. Relatively common monsters like orcs, ogres and trolls appear in most campaigns that I run.
Have you ever excluded monsters because they simply don't fit your vision of the game world, especially if it was something the players wanted to see included for some reason?
All the time. Flumphs simply don't exist. I've disliked Modrons since 1e, so I don't usually use them. There are others that I don't really use.
 

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