The Ultimate Mid-High level fighter fix

[The Souljourner]

Ok, maybe not ultimate, but it sounded catchy Here's a feat that I think would be a huge help for mid to high level fighters.

Old Dog, New Tricks [Fighter]

Prerequisites: Fighter 10th level (maybe higher? 12? 14?)

Your experience in combat allows you to pick up new techniques quickly.

Benefit:
Choose a fighter feat you qualify for and do not have, and which has no other feats as prerequisites. You gain that feat. Choose another fighter feat you qualify for and do not have, and which has the first feat you chose as a prerequisite. You gain that feat.

Special:
You may take this feat multiple times. Each time, choose two new feats.

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The basic idea is to help with starting new feat chains in the late game, where it can really suck to take one of those feats you qualified for 10 levels ago. Hmm... for my 14th level fighter ability I choose.... dodge. Sweet.

Thoughts? I know its power is directly proportional to the number of feat chains you have in your campaign and how powerful those feat chains are.... but assuming we're just using core + complete books... maybe not so bad?

[edit] Notes - you can't use this feat to get another instance of this feat, because it specifically says it has to be a feat you don't have. Also, note that the second feat has to have the first feat as a requirement, but it doesn't have to be the only requirement.... so if you already have Dodge and Mobility, you could take this to get Combat Expertise and Whirlwind Attack.

-The Souljourner

 

[Aust Diamondew]

This feat would only be useful in a game where you had acess to many more combat oriented feats than the ones in the PHB and even then it's possible that this might be overpowered. I don't think giving the fighter more feats is the kind of solution most people are looking for anyway.

 

[the Jester]

Meh.

More interesting feat choices are what's needed (imho), not simple more feats.

Edit: YMMV, of course- that's just my personal feeling on the subject.

 

[Baragos]

I'd change it to allow you to take feats without having all of the prerequisite feats, e.g. you may take Mobility without having the Dodge feat. Note that you don't get the bonus for the missed feat, so if you use Old Dog, New Tricks to get Greater Weapon Specialization without having Greater Weapon Focus you are essentially +1 to hit, +4 damage.

Ohh, and taking the feat once allows you to skip one feat requirement in each feat tree.

 

[Baragos]

And if you later take the "missing feat" you may ignore a new feat in the tree, e.g. using ODNT to get Far Shot without having PB SHot, then taking PB later on...

 

[The Souljourner]

Aust - just in the PHB there are plenty of feat chains which are useful, and you certainly can't get all of them by level 10. Just taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Focus is nearly half your feats by level 10. If you want two weapon feats, archery feats, spring attack, great cleave, or whirlwind attack, you have more you need to take. And it's really less of a "I don't have enough feats" and more of a prevention of "oh god, I have to waste a feat on something a level 1 commoner could take".

Jester - yeah, it's not the be all end all of fighter fixes (regardless of what the title says), but if you *want* to start a new feat chain, it's awfully handy... and with all the other feats there are to take in the first 10 levels (weapon focus, specialization, greater focus, etc), it's entirely conceivable that you don't have a feat chain that would be useful to your character.

Baragos - I specifically didn't want people to be able to take feats they don't qualify for, because that can be broken pretty easily. Plus, imagine you have two fighters, one has spent his feats on dodge, mobility, spring attack, combat expertise and finally got whirlwind attack. Now the other fighter in the party takes your feat and just gets whirlwind attack. The first fighter is going to feel gypped, because he went to all that effort to get the feat and you just took it with a single feat.

Skipping prerequisites is dangerous, both balance-wise and because of how it can make other players feel. I would allow an epic feat that lets you take any regular feat without meeting the prerequisites, but not as a regular feat.

-The Souljourner

 

[Baragos]

Souljourner: You misunderstood (or more likely I was unclear ) You can skip 1! feat for which you qualify, so in your example the second fighter might skip dodge, then take mobility, spring attack, combat expertise and whirlwind attack. He'd have used the same number of feats (as ODNT also takes a feat), but if he at the same time wanted to be good at archery, he could skip 1! feat in that tree (such as PB Shot), then take Rapid, Precise, and Far Shot - now he's gotten 1 feat discount (but without getting the specific benefits of Dodge and PB Shot). Better than being able to take 1 feat that grants 2 feats in my book...

 

[Thanee]

That doesn't help at all.

The problem is the lack of actual high-level abilities. Fighters already have low-level abilities in abundance.

Bye
Thanee

 

[The Souljourner]

That doesn't help at all.

The problem is the lack of actual high-level abilities. Fighters already have low-level abilities in abundance.

Bye
Thanee

While I agree with you that they need more high level abilities (more than the 0-ish they get now), I have to take issue with it not being useful. I've made several mid-level fighters, and I'm always short on feats. There are just so many good feats out there, and you need to spend half your feats on weapon-specific stuff (focus, specialization, etc).

This may not fix fighters completely, or even mostly, but I think it does shore up one of their major weaknesses. *shrug* YMMV. I'd love to have this feat, personally.

-The Souljourner

 

[comrade raoul]

What about having the fighter's feat progression just accelerate to one feat per level after 10th?