The village priest

pawsplay

Hero
Sometimes, the viewpoint is stated that in a D&D world, miracles are commonplace, magical healing is readily available to the wealthy or pious, and magical armaments form an important part of the baronial arsenal.

But is that really what the game suggests? Setting aside Forgotten Realms, official Greyhawk writeups, etc....

What is a priest? Who could serve as a pirest? Obviously, a cleric or druid could serve as a priest, providing both spiritual knowledge and miracles. So could an adept, who serves this role in primitive socities. Couldn't a sorcerer serve in this capacity, though? Or how about a lowly Expert, with high ranks in Knowledge (religion)?

The cleric class is an adventurer. Clad in armor, wielding a mace, and well versed in divine magics, the cleric is a spiritual warrior. They may or may not represent a deity. In Forgotten Realms, they must always have a deity. In Rules Cyclopedia D&D, their deity or faith, if any, was not considered important, only their alignment. D&D 3.5 kind of splits the difference; deity is optional.

In short, not all priests are clerics, and not all clerics are priests. The cleric is a specific kind of adventurer. The warrior is an analog to the fighter or barbarian, and the expert to the rogue, sagely wizard, or bard. What is analogous to the cleric? The adept serves this role in primitive societies, but doesn't make much sense in a civilized area... I have a hard time picturing adepts working in the cathedrals.

So where is the cleric without adventuring traits... no armor proficiency, modest combat abilities, skills suited to a mundane occupation, and the talents of a priest? I submit that the typical priest is not a cleric or even a spellcaster, but a simple Expert. While some people talk about clerical spells as divine miracles, I submit that they are the result of magical training, and that miracles do not spring forth when a cleric bids them. That is, priests depend largely on miracles, that is, direct intervention of the deity or their servants, for magical effects. Holy places might have miraculous effects; for instance, a group of priests might maintain a shrine renowned for its power to cure disease. The high priest of a religion may be empowered with divine might (perhaps as a Proxy, if you're using divine ranks).

If their priestly rites are magically effectatious, the Incantations rules from Unearthed Arcane might be handy, allowing experts with good skills to work very specific spell-like effects using elaborate prayer and preparation.

Some individuals might be blessed with clerical spells... these should be considered as exceptional among priests as fighters are among warriors. Such a person would be famous for their talents. Miracle workers might be clerics, or some kind of clerical variant. In the case of someone who works within the church in a noncombatant capacity, something like the cloistered cleric (UA), archivist, or some kind of custom variant would make sense. Or perhaps special prestige classes or feats might be designed for miracle workers within the chuch. I'd imagine they'd have a similar position to medieval faith healers and mystics, and the churches at which they worked would become objects of pilgrimages by the hopeful.

Who, indeed, makes most of those potions of cure light wounds? Surely not grim, armored clerics wielding maces, busy cleansing cursed tombs or nests of gnoll demon worshippers. But surely not simple experts, either.

D&D really lacks support for defining those characters who work divine magic but don't adventure, simply working at religious institutions casting helpful spells.
 

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Can't the NPC Adept class cast some divine magic? If so, I'd suggest that many village priests are a combination of Expert, Commoner, and Adept.
 

The Eberron campaign setting uses adepts and experts for non-adventuring clergymen; in the Sharn: City of Towers book is an alternate spell list for "civilized" adepts.

Demiurge out.
 

demiurge1138 said:
The Eberron campaign setting uses adepts and experts for non-adventuring clergymen; in the Sharn: City of Towers book is an alternate spell list for "civilized" adepts.

Demiurge out.

Do they still get snake familiars and Survival?
 

pawsplay said:
Do they still get snake familiars and Survival?
Don't have the book on me - they might have an alternate skill list. I'm pretty sure they still have a familiar if they get to a high enough level.

Demiurge out.
 

A priest is someone who people are willing to listen to in matters of religion. Often, he is a member of the clergy of whatever religion he happens to be preaching, though not always. What makes a priest is that folks listen to him when he talks about heaven, hell, gods, and the great beyond.

What makes a good priest in D&D? Well, Knowledge (religion) helps, and Knowledge (the planes) can be handy as well. Almost as important are speaking skills - bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, sense motive, they're all helpful. Perform is helpful, too, particularly Perform (oratory). Beyond that... its all in how the person is presented.

From the NPC classes:

Adepts are priests. They're the most common users of magic you're going to find, and they can heal folks. They also tend to know about religion. If you need a priest who can work minor miracles and brew some potions, this is your guy (as far as NPCs go).

Aristocrats are priests. The clergy in your world might be rich and powerful, or the nobility might buy their way into the clergy, or be the only ones educated enough to understand religious teachings. They have all the social skills, they have perform, and they have the knowledge.

Commoners are priests. They're not going to preach in the big cathedrals of the capital city, but a charismatic or wise commoner who is devout could easily lead a small town religiously.

Experts are priests. They can have whatever they'd like for class skills, and they'll be good at it. Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (religion), Perform (oratory), Heal, Profession (priest), and you're ready to go.

For the PC classes:

Bards are *fantastic* priests. In addition to their skills, they can perform things like healings. They have bardic music, which is certain to make folks enjoy going to church. They can win over converts, through magic and through persuasion. The alignment thing is an issue if you go strictly by the rules (which is one of a million reasons I allow bards to be lawful). When I've wanted a priest to be more than a low-level, fairly unimportant NPC type, bard is my first stop.

Clerics and druids, obviously, are divine casters and are normally seen as priests. Clerics, in particular, I tend to see more as crusaders, though they might preach here and there. Druids are a bit more priestly, in my opinion.

Monks are priests. They've got the skills. They make sense as devotees of various lawful religions.

Paladins can be priests, fighting the battle to save the souls of chuchgoers rather than battling evil. But, really, battling evil is what they're good at, so your paladin-priests are more likely to be those who *can't* fight (the elderly, the maimed, etc.)

Rogues are priests. And no, they don't all have to be priests of trickster gods (though many are). They've got all the skills to pull it off, except Knowledge (religion).

Wizards are priests. They are well-read, though not as charismatic or persuasive as many other priests.

As far as making items and casting spells? The adept for low-rung types. Experts with a level or three of cleric or druid, clerics or druids who are 'retired' for whatever reason, bards... heck, even a wizard with a cleric assistant. If you need a lot of things like potions of cure light wounds, these are all options. On the other hand, its also a reason I like Eberron - there, you have a Dragonmarked House with the power to cast cure spells without investing years of training into clerical studies. Means you don't need as many clerics in your clergy.
 
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demiurge1138 said:
Don't have the book on me - they might have an alternate skill list. I'm pretty sure they still have a familiar if they get to a high enough level.

All the differences are flavor except for a different spell list. Changes are minor, but it's a little less druidish and a little more arcanish (for example, Charm Person instead of Burning Hands).

They also "might" be religious adepts, as in the Eberron campaign setting, being able to add the spells from one domain to their spell list. They might not, they might be fortune tellers, alchemists, House Jorasco healers, etc.

I like that a church might not have any spellcasting members in Eberron. I have always felt it odd that all these people who can create miracles aren't out spreading the faith, defending the faith, questing for important relics, etc.
 
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You're right, a cleric is a bad fit for a village priest, he's more like a crusading knight. Priests are most likely to be experts imo. However by the table on page 139 of the DMG, five out of every six villages (pop. 400-900) has at least one cleric. Roll 1d6-1 for level, a 0 indicates no cleric.

Who makes potions of cure light wounds? Cloistered clerics? Miniatures handbook healers? Wizards with the Arcane disciple feat? Bards? House Jorasco?

I don't particularly like the way healing is tied in with worship in D&D worlds.
 

IMC
Clerics are explicit named 'Templars - Knights of the Temple' they are quite explicitly Warriors of their faith called upon as defenders and crusaders. In most Temple hierarchies Clerics are only minor clergy and rarely rise beyond the level of a deacon (those who assist priests). Templars of particular character can rise in rank to become Paladins

IMC most Priest are experts and Adepts (who I do not see as all that primitive) with Bards also not uncommon. The village priest is most likely an Expert., although the visiting 'Bishop' might be an Adept

Most Religious Centers also have a resident Alchemist (Wizard or Scorcerer) - who imc take the title of Acolyte - they are not true Priest but form their own order
 

Another "IMC" response:

The adept pretty much does the typical "heavy lifting" of spellcasting overall IMC. They're the ones who create some of the expendable magic items (and even a few permanent items). They're also the default "spellcasting priest" type of the setting. Because of this, unless you have money & connections, spells like raise dead are really hard to come by, since adepts have to be very high-level to cast such spells. As it is, a good number of adepts are multiclassed with other NPC classes (such as adept/warrior for some tribal priest or military priest, or expert/adept for a scholarly priest, aristocrat/adept for a high-ranking/wealthy priest, or even commoner/adept for a simple village priest). Some adepts even have levels in a PrC (like the Evangelist PrC from Complete Divine for a priest able to stir up/motivate the congregation).

Overall, the PC classes are the exceptions to the rule in the setting: it's rarer to come across a PC-classed NPC than it is an NPC-classed NPC.
 

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