I wondered if a tweak to the pdk/baneret might be to take a leaf out of the playtest fighter scout subclass and, instead of giving them additional skills, give them two 1d6 superiority dice, which they can spend on diplomacy and history checks. They can then buy in other manoeuvres and increase the number of superiority dice from two to four using fighting styles and feats. If it's not unbalanced, you could even let them pick one of the battlemaster manoeuvres from a limited list of Warlord type manoeuvres in addition to the skill options.
D&D 5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!
- Thread starter Urriak Uruk
- Start date
The Crimson Binome
Hero
There's a reason why feats and multi-classing are optional rules. You can use MAD to balance a class, and if some DM wants to introduce optional rules, then that's on them. Let them deal with the fallout.
The game wasn't balanced under the assumption of feats or multi-classing in the first place. Any DM who changes the rules should be looking for what they've broken along the way.
Don Durito
Hero
Do we really think that giving the Purple Dragon Knight abilities at 3 and 10 (weaksauce as they are) to the core fighter would imbalance the class? The biggest impact is the extra melee attack from an ally on an action surge - well that's not likely to break the game - and the other players aren't likely to complain as it makes them better too.*
The big issue at the moment is the same that effects all Fighter classes - the Battlemaster already exists and has, as it's schtick, the basic maneuver forms that should enable different concepts - so we get issues like the Purple Dragon Knight not having access to Warlord derived maneuvers.
*I'd even add in something extra - such as your allies gaining extra damage on attacks when they have temp hp you've granted them so we get some synergy and the rally maneuver or rallying cry gets a little better. (And Inspiring Leader becomes worth the trade-off for the fighter who wants it.)
The big issue at the moment is the same that effects all Fighter classes - the Battlemaster already exists and has, as it's schtick, the basic maneuver forms that should enable different concepts - so we get issues like the Purple Dragon Knight not having access to Warlord derived maneuvers.
*I'd even add in something extra - such as your allies gaining extra damage on attacks when they have temp hp you've granted them so we get some synergy and the rally maneuver or rallying cry gets a little better. (And Inspiring Leader becomes worth the trade-off for the fighter who wants it.)
Last edited:
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Mearls suggested a new Leader Fighting style but didnt elaborate. I have seen 3 suggestions that I recall one i do not remember in detail had to do with initiative
Vanguard/Leading Striker? each ally attacking the same target during the next round can exploit the opening you create or expose and get a +1 to hit
Opening Breaker the next attack by you are allies against the target gain a bonus damage equal to your Intelligence. (might even be balanced for 2 attacks)
Last edited:
Don Durito
Hero
Leader Fighting Style: If an ally has temp hp you have granted them - then they may add a bonus to their damage rolls equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
That is going to be either pretty common at the beginning of some fights via a feat or rarely via current rally its a bit all over the board but nice flavor. Most fighting styles are aiding every single round
Last edited:
Tales and Chronicles
Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I think the fighter could have had more Variant Features in the last UA.
Variant: Bolstering Gambit
(replaces Second Wind)
As a bonus action on your turn, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to your Charisma modifier + half your fighter level, provided that the creature can see or hear you.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.
Variant: Battle Surge
(Replaces Action Surge)
Starting at 2nd level, your group can push beyond its normal limits for a moment. Choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one can use its reaction to move half their speed without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again. Starting at 17th level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.
Variant: Shared Assault
(Enhances Extra Attack)
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. You can forgo one of your attack on your turn to allow create an opening for your allies. Choose one ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you. This ally can make an extra attack on its next turn. The attack is waster if it isnt used on the ally's next turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class. At 11th level, you can forgo one attack to grant an ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you advantage on its next attack roll until the end of its next turn.
Unbreakable Bond
(Replaces Indomitable)
Beginning at 9th level, you can use your reaction to allow an ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you to reroll a saving throw that it fails. If it chooses do so, it must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest.
You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 13th level and three times between long rests starting at 17th level.
Variant: Bolstering Gambit
(replaces Second Wind)
As a bonus action on your turn, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to your Charisma modifier + half your fighter level, provided that the creature can see or hear you.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.
Variant: Battle Surge
(Replaces Action Surge)
Starting at 2nd level, your group can push beyond its normal limits for a moment. Choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one can use its reaction to move half their speed without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again. Starting at 17th level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.
Variant: Shared Assault
(Enhances Extra Attack)
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. You can forgo one of your attack on your turn to allow create an opening for your allies. Choose one ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you. This ally can make an extra attack on its next turn. The attack is waster if it isnt used on the ally's next turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class. At 11th level, you can forgo one attack to grant an ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you advantage on its next attack roll until the end of its next turn.
Unbreakable Bond
(Replaces Indomitable)
Beginning at 9th level, you can use your reaction to allow an ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you to reroll a saving throw that it fails. If it chooses do so, it must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest.
You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 13th level and three times between long rests starting at 17th level.
Don Durito
Hero
True but there's only so much you can do. I think a fighting style that aids every round that is balanced against existing fighting styles is probably not going to have a big enough impact to be felt.
The other thing it would do is interact with the Purple Dragon's Knights ability to give out temp hp to allies with it's second wind. It would do a considerable amount to improve that particular sub class as it would enable it to set up a nova strike round at an early level.
However, I think, as probably no one will actually play a Purple Dragon Knight I'd allow a different Fighter to pick up the level 3 and level 10 abilties of that class (and their later improvements) with a feat.
Although, looking at the ideas from the poster above I could also see an option to upgrade what you can do with Second Wind and Action Surge provided you can't use them again until after a short rest.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
That's a kind of character you could do with the Warlord class, in 4e, usually with some of the build options that gave you the 'LazyLord,' It's a good example of, well, literally a sub-class a sub-set of the things the full class should be able to do. Of course, the class should also do the Bravura builds who /were/ badasses in their own right, too.
...ooh.. sub-classes...
...let's compare notes!
Extant 'builds' from 4e:
Inspiring, the most literal 'leader' take and the concept most covered by feats &c in 5e, so far, all about CHA, best at restoring hps.
Tactical, the most military-leaning 'comander'ish take, MM's partial Fighter-sub-class design of the 'warlord' limited itself to this INT-based build.
Bravura, lead-by example combat bad-ass, a risk-taker who encourages the same in his allies.
Resourceful, planning an material preparation, down with Combat as War - and improv when the plan contacts the enemy.
Skirmisher, mobile scout/woodsman/guerilla, who can keep the party together & sticking to those tactics rather than go on ahead by himself.
Insightful/Watcher, observes & predicts enemies actions, understands their motivations
community ideas:
Icon ('LazyLord' - I like Garthanos's 'Princess Build,' but y'know, gender), it's not so much what the Icon does, as what they represent to the party. Can include the plucky side-kick who inspires by trying, even if he'll never be in the same league as his allies.
Marshal, commander of masses of faceless troops (could be a 'pet class' with a swarm-like template pet, or could be saved for a wargame spin-off, like it's namesake was in 3e)
Artillerist, an archer himself & an organizer of ranged-weapon & spell volleys
Teacher, advocate of a martial philosophy, not just practical tactics or techniques
Protector, the trope of the 'leader' who puts the lives of his allies first
Hector, inspired allies, but also goads and out-maneuvers enemies into making mistakes.
...
5e-style faux-MC sub-classes
Crusader - divinely-inspired to bring the faithful together for victory (cleric/palad)
Arcane Battlemaster - on the battlefield, leverages the most powerful of all resources: magic. (wiz)
Infernal Strategist - victory at any price, even your soul (warlock)
Thaneborn - traditional tribal leader who incites berserk fury in his allies (barbarian)
Ardent - telempath, projects inspiriation/courage/etc to his allies (Psion)
I suppose my Seer could be done as a subclass you predict the future and use those predictions to guide the battle you can also use it to intimidate enemies by sharing images of their doom or even share with them visions of futures they cannot handle like the kind that blinded you. Warlord with Prophet sub type.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
One punctuational improvement at a time my friend. I really have to consciously stop myself with ellipses.Hey- don't hate on the semicolon; semicolons are cool and underutilized.
Similar Threads
