The WOW method to monsters? Would you hate it?

[S'mon]

I do use NPC settlement generation rules for monsters, but not Monte's abysmal demographics; I use 1/4 are 2nd level, 1/8 3rd, 1/16 4th and so on up. For gnolls that would mean 1/4 are War-1 (etc) on top of racial hd, 1/8 Wr-2, 1/16 War-3, 1/32 4th, 1/64 5th, 1/128 6th, 1/256 7th (ie War-7 + 2hd, a 9d8 critter). If they have PC classes they're 1 level lower, eg Ranger-6 instead of War-7.

 

[S'mon]

So when I wanted Warrior-5 & 6 orc mooks to fight high level PCs, the BBEG recruited 24 War-5 & 12 War-6 from the local orc tribes to guard his lair.

 

[cmanos]

Interesting thread. I've been considering pulling out Keep on the Borderlands and remaking it into an Epic mod, but with the same types of creatures. You know....25th level Orc Blackguards and such....

 

[JoeGKushner]

Disagree with the original poster.

With levels, templates, and advancement by hit dice, there is never a reason not to have an orc, kobold or goblin be an enemy even for an epic character.

Heck, didn't the FR just have a huge trilogy with Drizzt getting his butt kicked by an Orc?

 

[MonsterMash]

Got to admit it wouldn't really work for me. I'm using a setting with most of the villages and lairs mapped initially, and generally the level of leaders, etc is fixed then. If I have a reoccuring BBEG then his (or her) power may increase offscreen, but that would only be an exceptional individual that helps create a nice story arc in the game. But if I have party of 15th level PC's I wouldn't bother playing through an encounter with 20 regular orcs, it'd be more a case of treating it as flavour text.

 

[S'mon]

Yup, running 3e I've learned to treat the no-XP encounters purely as background scenery - "Several days later, after meeting and defeating several orc bands, you reach the city..." - in 1e they could be rolled through ok because the battle would be over so fast ("I fireball"), but in 3e it can take 15 minutes just to _start_ a battle, with the minis & the rolling initiatives, so better not to worry.

 

[VirgilCaine]

No, you give them stuff that's not likely to be of raw use to the PC's. That halves the gold value right there. For starters only 4 (or so) sets of armour and weaponry is likely to be of use to the PCs. Then you give out a bunch of expendables, and use some of them - again, less ongoing treasure for the PCs.

Also you have to factor in that the PCs probably fight a good few encounters that have little or no treasure at all (demons, animals etc tend to be totally treasureless). Basically it all evens out in the end, assuming you don't have the entire campaign made up of fully-equipped NPCs. In that case though, you've other problems (like how phenomenally good charm person is for instance)

Only useful magical items and potions will be kept by the PCs. The armor and weapons, unless they are really nifty, they will sell. Even if they trade in their old magic weapon for a new one, they still have to sell it. Since this is an NPC, he won't have that much misc. magic anyway, it will mostly be magic armor and weapons, with some potions or Quaal's tokens or what not.

 

[Thanee]

Individuals or small groups: yes. Whole tribes: no.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DonTadow]

Yup, running 3e I've learned to treat the no-XP encounters purely as background scenery - "Several days later, after meeting and defeating several orc bands, you reach the city..." - in 1e they could be rolled through ok because the battle would be over so fast ("I fireball"), but in 3e it can take 15 minutes just to _start_ a battle, with the minis & the rolling initiatives, so better not to worry.

There are some creatures such as drow and mindslayers that you can level up in hierchy's but, retredding on my earlier statement, certain monsters are visual clues as to the level they are. After a while they become part of the background. Every now and then I might let my pcs fight a low band party of drow just to shock them.

 

[Klaus]

There's a free adventure over at WotC's site that has a tribe of 12th-level orc barbarians (yes, every single one, except for those who are higher level).