Theft and Alignment
- Thread starter GakToid
- Start date
Djeta Thernadier
First Post
Depends on what and why.
Are you stealing because you want stuff for you ? Or are you stealing to feed your family, or return an item that was taken from someone else?
I'd say in a lot of cases, stealing is neutral. Sometimes, if done for nothing more your own advancement and greed, it's evil. But there are plenty of reasons why theft would not be evil as well.
Are you stealing because you want stuff for you ? Or are you stealing to feed your family, or return an item that was taken from someone else?
I'd say in a lot of cases, stealing is neutral. Sometimes, if done for nothing more your own advancement and greed, it's evil. But there are plenty of reasons why theft would not be evil as well.
Angcuru
First Post
I'd post a link to an essay I wrote on the difference between motivation and intention, but FreeXenon's post says basically the same thing. 
It's all in the motivation. If you stole to feed some poor orphans, it's Chaotic Good. If you stole for you own personal gain, that's Chaotic Neutral. If you stole just to harm the one you stole from, that's Chaotic Evil.
It's all in the motivation. If you stole to feed some poor orphans, it's Chaotic Good. If you stole for you own personal gain, that's Chaotic Neutral. If you stole just to harm the one you stole from, that's Chaotic Evil.Elder-Basilisk
First Post
There seems to be a lot of posters maintaining that if you steal for your personal gain, it's a chaotic and neutral act. This seems to me to ignore the reality that theft generally has a victim. Stealing for personal gain indicates a willingness to hurt other people (the victim(s) of the theft) for personal gain or alternately a desire for personal gain that offsets any consideration of who might be hurt by the act. Either way you describe it, you're paraphrasing the PHB description of evil.
Just because theft for personal gain is an accepted trope of gaming doesn't mean it isn't evil. It just means that some of the accepted tropes of gaming are evil. (Come to think of it, "to crush your enemies, drive them before you, and hear the lamentations of/ravage their women" (alternatively the Conan and Genghis Kahn versions of the quote) describes an evil view of the good life too).
Just because theft for personal gain is an accepted trope of gaming doesn't mean it isn't evil. It just means that some of the accepted tropes of gaming are evil. (Come to think of it, "to crush your enemies, drive them before you, and hear the lamentations of/ravage their women" (alternatively the Conan and Genghis Kahn versions of the quote) describes an evil view of the good life too).
Reason
The reason I brought up the topic was because of the last session I played in. The important characters are:
Lawful Good Paladin
Chaotic Good Cleric - ME!
Chaotic Neutral Rogue
So we're in this tomb and kill a ghost. The rogue then wants to go rummaging through the sarcophagus looking for stuff to take.
The Paladin and I take offense at this idea. The rogue then makes a comment along the lines of, "I can't wait to play in a campaign that isn't ruined."
To which the paladin responds, "Here, let me help you open that so you can skull $#%$# the corpse."
Our session ended soon after and we all went our ways.
Now I'm wondering if I (as a chaotic good character) would have a problem robbing from a tomb.
-Gak Toid
The reason I brought up the topic was because of the last session I played in. The important characters are:
Lawful Good Paladin
Chaotic Good Cleric - ME!
Chaotic Neutral Rogue
So we're in this tomb and kill a ghost. The rogue then wants to go rummaging through the sarcophagus looking for stuff to take.
The Paladin and I take offense at this idea. The rogue then makes a comment along the lines of, "I can't wait to play in a campaign that isn't ruined."
To which the paladin responds, "Here, let me help you open that so you can skull $#%$# the corpse."
Our session ended soon after and we all went our ways.
Now I'm wondering if I (as a chaotic good character) would have a problem robbing from a tomb.
-Gak Toid
Thanee
First Post
I think stealing is chaotic in nature.
The motivation for stealing can be good or evil (especially who you steal from), or just neutral, but the process of stealing has no meaning on this alignment axis.
Robin Hood surely would be CG in D&D (altho he might actually have started as LG before becoming Robin Hood, that is).
Bye
Thanee
The motivation for stealing can be good or evil (especially who you steal from), or just neutral, but the process of stealing has no meaning on this alignment axis.
Robin Hood surely would be CG in D&D (altho he might actually have started as LG before becoming Robin Hood, that is).
Bye
Thanee
Thanee
First Post
GakToid said:
That's simply for you to decide.
As a good-aligned cleric you might be more leaning towards not disturbing the dead.
Being chaotic means to value individualism, which might lead to letting the rogue do.
In the end you have to judge for yourself what you believe your character would think about this.
Bye
Thanee
I tend to agree - the issue isn't whether your PC is CG or LG or LE. It is that he is a cleric. Depending on the ethos of the character it might not be something that the PC wants anything to do with. It is just as likely that a LG cleric or a CE one would not want to disturb a tomb. It all depends on their ethos and their 'values' concerning the dead's final resting place.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Depends, really, on the DM's take on the 'sanctity of the dead.'
By default, the dead aren't really special in D&D. The corpse of your ally or your enemy is the same thing -- a corpse. It can be used to raise them later (but might not be needed), or to make an undead out of it. There's no real concept of preservation, because a corpse is only as useful as what you can get out of it. So looting a corpse isn't bad. Desecrating one is mean, but depending on what the cureature was in life, it might not be evil (skull-banging a beloved king is probably CE; chopping up the body of the villain may not be exactly honorable (e.g.: the paladin would have problems), but it's certainly not wicked). Turning it into an undead is only evil because the spell, by definition, creates more evil in the world.
So by looting the corpse, the rogue wasn't nessecarily evil, and the paladin might've had a few issues with it, especially if he was chopping them up or something. But neither were you wrong in defying him -- your character could want to hold himself to higher standards than the rogue's.
By default, the dead aren't really special in D&D. The corpse of your ally or your enemy is the same thing -- a corpse. It can be used to raise them later (but might not be needed), or to make an undead out of it. There's no real concept of preservation, because a corpse is only as useful as what you can get out of it. So looting a corpse isn't bad. Desecrating one is mean, but depending on what the cureature was in life, it might not be evil (skull-banging a beloved king is probably CE; chopping up the body of the villain may not be exactly honorable (e.g.: the paladin would have problems), but it's certainly not wicked). Turning it into an undead is only evil because the spell, by definition, creates more evil in the world.
So by looting the corpse, the rogue wasn't nessecarily evil, and the paladin might've had a few issues with it, especially if he was chopping them up or something. But neither were you wrong in defying him -- your character could want to hold himself to higher standards than the rogue's.
drnuncheon
Explorer
I'm continually surprised by the number of people who still equate Lawful alignment with following laws. I almost wish the alignment were named something else, like 'Orderly' - but then it sounds like the paladins should be wearing hospital scrubs.
Anyway, the Mafia is a great example of a group that is generally Lawful Evil: they're organized. They have a distinct and defined hierarchy. They have traditions. They have codes of honor. But they sure as heck don't follow 'the law'.
J
Anyway, the Mafia is a great example of a group that is generally Lawful Evil: they're organized. They have a distinct and defined hierarchy. They have traditions. They have codes of honor. But they sure as heck don't follow 'the law'.
J
