[Theory] Why D&D is Popular

[The_Gneech]

While Col Pladoh has denied that Tolkien greatly influenced D&D, many gamers saw D&D as a way of entering Tolkienesque worlds filled with fantastic/legendary/mythological elements with which they were already familiar.

I think the Colonel's point is more that other authors more directly influenced the particular flavor of D&D, e.g. the Lovecraftian oozes, abberations, and gibbering mouthers all over the place. Certainly Greyhawk is a more sinister world than Middle Earth.

-The Gneech

 

[Turjan]

While Col Pladoh has denied that Tolkien greatly influenced D&D, many gamers saw D&D as a way of entering Tolkienesque worlds filled with fantastic/legendary/mythological elements with which they were already familiar.

I think the denial has more legal reasons than anything else; what do you expect after being threatened with a lawsuit. Sure, the influence of many other popular fantasy works is strong, but the race setup (except gnomes) and their stereotypes are directly lifted from Tolkien's work. This makes identification with the character stereotypes easier.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

To the Warhammer advocate: Not a chance. Games Workshop has retail stores in malls yes. But only those who are familiar with the product itself have any clue as to what Warhammer is. Warhammer has tried to compete with D&D as a brand in the past. It failed miserably. They have not even bothered to try to seriously do so again.

Games Workshop survives by selling visually attractive product that is VASTLY overpriced to a niche of a niche. It's no more than that - and never has been.

Games Workshop also possesses significant financial resources - behind Wizards, obviously in a completely minor league compared to Hasbro, but not out of the ballpark TSR set for much of its lifetime.

When Warhammer tried to compete with D&D directly (with the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay), it wasn't anything close to the brand name it is today.

GW boasts visually attractive, high-production-value products - arguably higher than D&D -, a monthly periodical (sometimes available in mass market stores, though frankly I haven't seen White Dwarf or Dragon there lately), and brand recognition through other media: mass-market-available novels and very successful electronic games.

GW also has the only proven, profitable sci-fi license in tabletop gaming, WH40k. While the rest of the world has consistently failed to keep a sci-fi game in production, 40k is, if anything, even more popular and recognizable than Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

GW hasn't seriously tried to compete with D&D since it's been a market presence big enough to do so. To compare the fledgling GW's original RPG launch (even then a significant part of the market in Europe) with what the miniatures titan of today could produce if it were inclined to do so is foolish at best.

GW almost certainly had the resources to scoop up TSR in its dying days, had it the inclination. GW's lack of interest in the seems more a matter of its low and inconsistent profit margins compared to Warhammer's core business. Even now, it spins its RPG division off and uses an outside company to produce it.

GW hasn't made a significant play for the RPG market since it's been a significant company.

 

[mythusmage]

"Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan."

 

[wingsandsword]

While Col Pladoh has denied that Tolkien greatly influenced D&D, many gamers saw D&D as a way of entering Tolkienesque worlds filled with fantastic/legendary/mythological elements with which they were already familiar.

I think there is truth there. If the Col. is true in saying he really wasn't inspired as much by Tolkien as he was by Moorcock, Lovecraft, Vance and Howard, the players of his product (and later authors) were inspired heavily by Tolkien.

Early on, with the rise in popularity of LotR, as well as the rise in the SCA, Ren Faires, and interest in medieval fantasy, D&D provided a nice outlet for their interests and their desire for a Tolkienesque (which, a modified Tolkienesque medieval fantasy is still the a standard D&D mode)

The rise of popularity of LotR, tied with the rise of the SCA and Ren Faires set the foundation for the initial popularity, the open endedness of it kept people coming back for more. D&D didn't try to be fixed to a single world or setting, just a broad genre, so DM's could easily make the game fit their group easily (instead of worrying about a metaplot, or keeping track of a detailed world that is integral to the very game). It also had loads of market penetration, even if other games were on the market, most mass-market distribution channels would only have D&D (or would display competitors less prominently).

Yes, She Who Shall Not Be Named almost killed it in the 90's, assuming that all gamers are incompetent nitwits who will buy anything (and boasting of that fact) and that the D&D brand is so strong that nothing can stop it, but the fact it survived even her rampant abuse of it shows how strong it is. No brand is invincible, but some are so dominant in their own field it can take a lot for them to fail.

 

[fusangite]

In the realm of literature, we don't take authors' claims at face value when they tell us what did and did not influence them. I deeply respect Gary but I think it's a little silly to assume he has a higher level of self-awareness than the greatest literary minds of history.

 

[fanboy2000]

Why wouldn't you take an author's claim at face value? Wouldn't they be the best judge of what influenced them?

 

[jmucchiello]

Most (I'd say at least 75%) of the people in America know the term "D&D."

If I were to pull a percentage from my butt as you apparently have, my butt would say 30-40% of America know the term. I've met many people who have no concept of "D&D" even if they have played D&D branded video games. Fewer still are the number of people who could accurately explain what a game of D&D is like.

Try it. Go to a mall, wear neutral clothing (no dragon t-shirt), ask random passersby "Have you ever heard of D&D?" If they say yes, follow up with "What is it?" You will not approach 75% in my estimation. Remember to ask as many old folk as young folk, men and woman, etc. and don't do this outside the hobby shop.

 

[Turjan]

Why wouldn't you take an author's claim at face value? Wouldn't they be the best judge of what influenced them?

Well, why do you ask? Just look at the product and judge yourself. It's the best indicator that the spoken truth is in this case only half the truth . If I had a lawsuit dangling over my head, I'd probably also be cautious with what I'd say and what I'd not say .

For the purpose of this thread, it will suffice to say that D&D contains enough Tolkien to facilitate instant recognition within the large group of people who know Tokien's work and its fantasy tropes.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Why wouldn't you take an author's claim at face value? Wouldn't they be the best judge of what influenced them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_author