D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Vaalingrade]

Like I said. You would need to adjust the encounter guidelines.

Again, not really. I'm not going for resource attrition.

You couldn't have a solo thief steal something and run. You need an army of thieves.

Why couldn't I? How is a skill contest and poorly designed chase easier with resource drain?

You couldn't fight room to room though a dungeon, get worn down and try to find a corner to rest in. You would have to fight an entire dungeon at once.

Why would I want this?

Not saying that style of game couldn't be fun. Just different. And it would break all the adventures and any trace of backwards compatibles.

GOOD.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

Changes I would make, without going to half-casting.

1) Move the 3rd pact magic slot to 3rd level, and the 4th to 11.
2) Add an invocation to gain 1 1st level spell, and cast it twice per LR. Increase this to 2nd at 5th, 3rd at 9th, etc. If you want to have a lot of low level spells, you can via your invocation choices.
3) Remove Mystic Arcanum 6th-9th class features, increase the number of total invocations to 11.
4) Most of the other changes are pretty good! I'd leave them as is.

this is already better

 

[mellored]

Again, not really. I'm not going for resource attrition.

But DnD5e is.
And it is going for backwards compatibility with all the previous adventures.

And this is a play test for that game.

Again. I'm not saying your way is wrong. But it's a different game.

 

[Remathilis]

I always loved the warlock. I like the flavour, I like that it can be a Gish, I like that it was really customizeable, I like Eldritch Blast, was one of my favourite overall.

With all that said I loved the change to half-caster. I get that it makes the warlock more in line with other casters, but I'm simply getting more spell slots to my class, and that is better to me. I don't think Mystic Arcanum is ready, and we would need some tunning or changes to make it not look like a "feat tax" but I like the new direction. The lvl 18 capstone is garbage though.

So I've been thinking about how to make half-caster progression more palatable for those who liked pact magic. Here is my thought.

Right now, the warlock gets a free "phantom" spell slot. It's hidden in your Patron and it gives you a free cast of any of your patron spells. You only get one, and once you use a free cast for any patron spell, you're done for the day. (Making it worthless to use it on anything but your highlest level patron spells).

Let's eliminate that.

Instead, let's give them a single "Mystic Arcanum" spell slot. It scales at the same rate as a full caster (2nd level at 3rd, 3rd level at 5th, 4th level at 7th, etc). You can prepare a single Arcane spell in it, and it recovers on a short rest. That way, you always have a boom at the highest level, and it will augment your collection of lower-level utility magic.

For example: a 10th level caster prepares 9 spells of 1st-3rd level and one 5th level spell. They can cast the lower spells with their regular spell slots, but the 5th level spell with their special MA splot. Their regular spells come back on long rest, but the MA comes back on a short or long. When they level to 11th level, they MA slot becomes a 6th level slot and they prep a 6th level spell (or any spell upcasted to 6th) in it instead.

Pros:
Brings back some of the boom of pact magic while keeping lower-level spell slots available.
No MA Invocation tax

Cons:
Far more complicated
Potential power/balance issues.

 

[Bolares]

I think the main problem people have is spell progression, because in volume you have straight up more spells right now. So maybe making the warlock progression a little faster? something like a 2/3 caster?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

But DnD5e is.
And it is going for backwards compatibility with all the previous adventures.

And this is a play test for that game.

Again. I'm not saying your way is wrong. But it's a different game.

YEah I don't expect they will change the base idea of D&D

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

So I've been thinking about how to make half-caster progression more palatable for those who liked pact magic. Here is my thought.

Right now, the warlock gets a free "phantom" spell slot. It's hidden in your Patron and it gives you a free cast of any of your patron spells. You only get one, and once you use a free cast for any patron spell, you're done for the day. (Making it worthless to use it on anything but your highlest level patron spells).

Let's eliminate that.

Instead, let's give them a single "Mystic Arcanum" spell slot. It scales at the same rate as a full caster (2nd level at 3rd, 3rd level at 5th, 4th level at 7th, etc). You can prepare a single Arcane spell in it, and it recovers on a short rest. That way, you always have a boom at the highest level, and it will augment your collection of lower-level utility magic.

For example: a 10th level caster prepares 9 spells of 1st-3rd level and one 5th level spell. They can cast the lower spells with their regular spell slots, but the 5th level spell with their special MA splot. Their regular spells come back on long rest, but the MA comes back on a short or long. When they level to 11th level, they MA slot becomes a 6th level slot and they prep a 6th level spell (or any spell upcasted to 6th) in it instead.

Pros:
Brings back some of the boom of pact magic while keeping lower-level spell slots available.
No MA Invocation tax

Cons:
Far more complicated
Potential power/balance issues.

this is the first thing I have seen from you I can get behind... while it is far from my first choice I think 1 free spell slot of fulll caster (upto 5th) would work but I would want to keep the 1/day pact spell

thank you for really listening and understanding our point of view.

 

[Vaalingrade]

But DnD5e is.
And it is going for backwards compatibility with all the previous adventures.

And it should stop both of these.

Also, this line of discussion started with a discussion of implementation--that you would have to adjust encounters to have a per-encounter resource schema -- not whether they'll do it.

 

[Bolares]

this is the first thing I have seen from you I can get behind... while it is far from my first choice I think 1 free spell slot of fulll caster (upto 5th) would work but I would want to keep the 1/day pact spell

thank you for really listening and understanding our point of view.

what if they got the spell progression from a full caster but spell slot volume of a half caster until 5th level spells? would it make to many dead levels? would it be too powerfull with all the invocations and pact cantrips?

 

[payn]

I know that's what I want in my adventure fantasy, sitting around making plans.