They hybrid Roll N' Buy ability score generation method

[kenjib]

This is a distillation of a method for generating a character's ability scores that I created with some help from nsruf. I think that it combines the best of both rolling and point buy.

Here is the original thread if you want to see the previous discussion:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6899

1. Roll 3d6 for each stat in order and take all scores where they fall.
2. Swap a single pair of ability scores.
3. Calculate your point total as if you had created this character with the standard point buy rules.
4. Consult your DM regarding the baseline for the campaign (25 point, 28 point, 32 point, etc.).*
5. If your character as rolled has a total point value greater than the baseline amount, congratulations! You get 4 additional points to spend at will as per the point buy rules.
6. If your character as rolled has a point total less than the baseline amount, subtract your total from the baseline. You may spend the greater of 4 or this value at will as per the point buy rules.

* When determining this baseline, DM's should consider that it is quite possible for a character to end up with a character 4 or more points higher than this value. This is not a hard upper limit as it is under standard point buy rules, nor is it a minimum.

score - point cost
8 (or less) - 0*
9 - 1
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 4
13 - 5
14 - 6
15 - 8
16 - 10
17 - 13
18 - 16

* It costs 1 point per ability point to raise an ability score below 8

Example characters generated with this method to follow in the next post.

 

[kenjib]

For these attempts I am using a 25 point baseline and the following web-based die roller (you need to change the default values to get a straight set of 3d6 rolls, as default is 4d6 drop lowest): http://www.irony.com/igroll.html

ATTEMPT 1 - THE FIGHTER

Roll 1: 1, 1, 4 = 6 = Str
Roll 2: 2, 1, 6 = 9 = Dex
Roll 3: 4, 1, 1 = 6 = Con
Roll 4: 5, 6, 2 = 13 = Int
Roll 5: 6, 6, 6 = 18 = Wis
Roll 6: 2, 1, 6 = 9 = Cha

I'll swap wisdom and strength. Total point value is 22, 3 below baseline. This means I get 4 points to spend. I'm putting them all into con, giving me:

Str: 18
Dex: 9
Con: 10
Int: 13
Wis: 6
Cha: 9

I qualify for expertise and have a devastating strength but suffer from some drawbacks as a result of natural shortcomings. The low wisdom is quirky and could be fun.


ATTEMPT 2 - THE WIZARD

Roll 1: 1, 5, 5 = 11 = str
Roll 2: 4, 2, 4 = 10 = dex
Roll 3: 3, 3, 3 = 9 = con
Roll 4: 5, 3, 5 = 13 = int
Roll 5: 1, 2, 6 = 9 = wis
Roll 6: 5, 4, 5 = 14 = cha

I'll swap charisma and constitution. Total point value is 18. This gives me 7 extra points to spend. I'll bump int to 16, costing 5 points, then dex to 12, costing 2 more.

str: 11
dex: 12
con: 14
int: 16
wis: 9
cha: 9

Nice - pretty close to what you'd get with standard point spread but a little bit tweaked to account for natural ability.

ATTEMPT 3 - THE ROGUE

Roll 1: 4, 4, 3 = 11 = str
Roll 2: 6, 1, 5 = 12 = dex
Roll 3: 2, 5, 6 = 13 = con
Roll 4: 1, 6, 2 = 9 = int
Roll 5: 3, 1, 3 = 7 = wis
Roll 6: 5, 4, 6 = 15 = cha

I'll swap dex and cha. Total point value is 21. I get four more points to spend. I'll bump dex to 16, and raise int and wis both by 1.

str: 11
dex: 16
con: 13
int: 10
wis: 8
cha: 12

Nice - very workable. It's close to standard point spread but the abilities aren't quite where a rogue would most likely place them.


ATTEMPT 4 - THE CLERIC

Roll 1: 5, 5, 4 = 14 = str
Roll 2: 3, 3, 1 = 7 = dex
Roll 3: 1, 6, 1 = 8 = con
Roll 4: 2, 1, 1 = 4 = int
Roll 5: 3, 4, 1 = 8 = wis
Roll 6: 3, 6, 6 = 15 = cha

I'll swap cha and wis. Total point value is 14 so I get 11 points to spend. I'll raise wis by 1 (to 16), int to 8, con to 10, dex to 8, and cha to 10.

str: 14
dex: 8
con: 10
int: 8
wis: 16
cha: 10

Definitely workable but a bit quirky, which is fun. Getting out of the "4 int pit" hurt some but the character is still workable.

ATTEMPT 5 - THE MONK

Roll 1: 5, 4, 4 = 13 = str
Roll 2: 4, 1, 4 = 9 = dex
Roll 3: 2, 3, 4 = 9 = con
Roll 4: 4, 3, 4 = 11 = int
Roll 5: 5, 3, 6 = 14 = wis
Roll 6: 3, 2, 4 = 9 = cha

I'll swap int and dex. Total point value is 17, giving me 8 points to distribute. I'll raise wisdom to 16, dex to 14, and con to 10.

str: 13
dex: 14
con: 10
int: 9
wis: 16
cha: 9

Looks almost like yer standard monk.

ATTEMPT 6 - THE BARBARIAN

Roll 1: 5, 4, 5 = 14 = str
Roll 2: 5, 3, 5 = 13 = dex
Roll 3: 4, 6, 5 = 15 = con
Roll 4: 4, 2, 2 = 8 = wis
Roll 5: 2, 2, 3 = 7 = int
Roll 6: 6, 6, 6 = 18 = cha

I'll swap cha and str. Total point value is 35 - far above the baseline. That means I get 4 points to spend. I'll raise con to 16 and dex to 14.

str: 18
dex: 14
con: 16
wis: 8
int: 7
cha: 14

This guy's a hulking brute of a combat monster and likable, with a great presence, despite being somewhat slow on the pickup and thick in the head. He's your basic cuddly grizzly bear. Here's an example of that "luck of the dice" character in any case, but the stats still aren't min-maxed into the most efficient configuration. Notice how I was forced into keeping a high charisma, which would normally be the #1 dump stat for this guy. This is interesting and opens up some new possibilities for this character.


SUMMARY

If this works as per this test sample it seems to keep characters a little more balanced with one another, which addresses the problem of a straight dice roll generation method. It also maintains some randomness, reducing the cookie-cutter problem encountered when using point-buy (i.e. every point buy fighter has the same stats, every point buy rogue has the same stats, etc).

 

[Crothian]

Seems good. I'm just curious how this will turn out, so I'll roll something up real fast. Let's go 32 point buy. I'm feeling epic.

Stats: 9, 15, 14, 6, 11, 11

Okay, I dislike stupid characters, so I'll swap cha and int to give:

9,15,14,11,11,6 This will be a rogue.

Okay, total it up as point buy: 1+ 8 + 6 + 3 + 3 +0 = 21

That gives me 11 more points. I'll take str, Int, and Wis up one each. That leaves me 8 points. Just enough to take dex to an 18.

Final scores: 10, 18, 14, 12, 12, 6.

Not too bad. I think it rewards losey rolls and good rolls too much, though. The father you are away from the base line the moer options you have, and if you roll higher then the base you still get some more added in. It's not to bad, and I wouldn't have to much trouble playing in a game like this.

 

[kenjib]

I agree that there is some drawback to getting exactly at baseline rather than a little below, however if you roll below 8 you actually lose points. When calculating your initial point value your '6' was worth 0 points - just like an '8'. So you either lose 2 points to get a low score out of the gutter (thus having a 30 point character instead of 32) or you have to live with a '6', which you would never have in straight point-buy and would be less likely to have with 4d6 drop lowest. So there is still a drawback to rolling low if you get below an 8, which should be fairly common with straight 3d6.

I don't know how well the system will hold up over a large number of rolls though.

 

[EOL]

What I'm curious about is how it holds up given different "base points" in a 32 point buy there will be far fewer people who roll over and far more who roll quite a bit under. So that's obviously going to schew the system one way. However if you decided it was going to be a 18 point buy (unlikely I realize) then quite a few would roll over. I wish I had more mental energy tonight I might try and figure out some probabilities....

 

[Crothian]

The higher the point buy, the more likely all the players will be of equal points. The lower points, the more likely a player or two will roll really good and be much higher then the number set.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I liked this method so much from the earlier thread that I incorporated it into my house rules. All my campaigns will use this method instead of straight point buy or 4d6. Nice work.

I must of rolled about 30 or 40 ability score sets with the method and it seems to work nicely. My default is 28 point buy but I can easily shift that up or down depending upon the campaign.

 

[twjensen]

points below 8.

Character 1, against all odds, rolls
str: 8
dex: 8
con: 8
int: 8
wis: 8
chr: 8

and on a 24 point buy system, gets 24 points to spend.

Character 2 rolls thusly:
str: 14
dex: 14
con: 3
int: 3
wis: 14
chr: 14

and on a 24 point buy system, gets 4 points to spend. Swap con with something else, buy int up to seven, you've still got a very unhappy player compared to the guy who rolled a straight buy.

Character 3:
Str: 18
Dex: 18
Con: 16
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Chr: 15

and STILL has 4 points to spend! So now he'll have 3 18s and no score below 15 and will be irritated if the DM needs to nurf his character in order to keep the play balance even remotely close to sane.

Here's my fundamental beef with all roll-based character generation: Pissed players committing (character, I sincerely hope ) suicide or otherwise sabotaging the game so that they can get a new character. Other players who rolled well and then become excessively attached to their character because they'll never roll that well again.

So any system, hybrid or otherwise, needs to have a couple of prereqs entirely unrelated to the system:

1) No powergamers. Powergamers LOVE to roll dice, but HATE to be unlucky with those dice.

2) An out for the DM if someone rolls an insanely great character. Once I've rolled it, I want to play it and am likely to be quite irrational about play balance.

 

[Crothian]

Re: points below 8.

Here's my fundamental beef with all roll-based character generation: Pissed players committing (character, I sincerely hope ) suicide or otherwise sabotaging the game so that they can get a new character. Other players who rolled well and then become excessively attached to their character because they'll never roll that well again.

So any system, hybrid or otherwise, needs to have a couple of prereqs entirely unrelated to the system:

1) No powergamers. Powergamers LOVE to roll dice, but HATE to be unlucky with those dice.

2) An out for the DM if someone rolls an insanely great character. Once I've rolled it, I want to play it and am likely to be quite irrational about play balance.

I've never seen a player commit suicide over some dice rolls. Heck, I just made a new character for a new campaign on Sunday. The guy playing a wizard has better attributes then me in every stat except charisma. And I'm a Ranger. But, I'll still find a way to go on through the deporession of a "weak" character and try not to drop a toaster into my tub.

You are right, it depends does on the group. Heck, the whole game does. House rules, playing style, characters all reflect the people who are playing. As long as the whole group agrees to how you play there shouldn't be a problem

 

[Al]

Here's my fundamental beef with all roll-based character generation: Pissed players committing (character, I sincerely hope ) suicide or otherwise sabotaging the game so that they can get a new character. Other players who rolled well and then become excessively attached to their character because they'll never roll that well again.

However, his main 'beef' is characteristic of playing with munchkins and novice RPers. Experienced RPers take what they get and make what they can of it: poor stat characters are more interesting that the straight-18 ultra. The trick is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater- the system is good, but the players may be lousy. So the solution? Change the players, not the system.

1) No powergamers. Powergamers LOVE to roll dice, but HATE to be unlucky with those dice.

As for 1), isn't the point-buy (the presumed alternative) even worse for powergamers? How many powergamers using point-buy are going to bump up Charisma unless they're playing a sorceror/bard/paladin/cleric? Can you imagine Bill the Powergaming Paladin slapping a 15 in Int? I think not. With even experienced roleplayers point-buy generates stereotypes, and it takes a brave point-buyer indeed to play a fighter with mediocre Str just to raise his Cha a few points.

2) An out for the DM if someone rolls an insanely great character. Once I've rolled it, I want to play it and am likely to be quite irrational about play balance

Never struck me as a problem. I've DMed for four years, seen ultra-characters but it hasn't changed play balance. A character is a character. I only want to play them if they're interesting. I'd much rather play a character with good stats and an interesting background/personality than a vanilla fighter with straight 18s.

Incidentally, I use the Organic Method. Provides plenty of interesting stat combinations (i.e. 'out-of-place' stats, such as high Cha barbarians), provides playable stat sets and gives the players that important reroll.