Things I Miss....

[Water Bob]

I miss rolling for initiative each round, AFTER you've announced your action. That was a huge thing, especially before the days of Concentration checks.

I like the freedom and speed of rolling nish once, but, yeah, I know what you mean. In 2E, you announced actions first, then rolled nish. But, remember it was an optional 2E rule to roll nish each round. The standard rules had you rolling nish only once.

In 1E, you rolled nish every round, but the round wasn't like it is today. There were "combat phases". For examples, bows got their first shot before melee nish was thrown. Then, after the melee was over, the bowmen fired their second shot (since the bows had ROF 2).

Magic was done in a funky way like that, using the casting time to count.

And, when nish was thrown in melee, there were no modifiers (not unless bows were firing into melee, then they could use their DEX reaction bonus). You simply threw a d6, possibly allowing the combatant with the shorter, lighter, weapon an extra attack or two, depending on the weapon's speed factor.

A 1E AD&D combat round is quite interesting. A bowman fires first shot. Melee happens. Magic happens based on casting time number (not a die roll). And then bowman fires second shot.

Man, I'm a bit hazy on 1E, but I think that's how it went. If not, it was something close to that.

... except that it was far, far more likely that you'd find a magic longsword than a magic mace (by the random treasure tables and in published adventures), so you almost always ended up specialized in longsword... at which point there was no advantage to dropping back to a non-magical mace from your +2 longsword.

This is where you friendly neighborhood DM steps in and changes the +2 Longsword to a +2 Mace for his player that favors the mace.







SOMETHNG I DON'T THINK ANY EDITION HAS GOTTEN "RIGHT" YET....

Weapon proficiences. I liked how 1E and 2E allowed a character to learn a certain number of weapons, and he could get bonus weapons based on his INT score.

Where it failed, imo, was that there wasn't enough "cross over". There needed to be weapon groups (which were later put into the game with 2E supplements) where a single proficiency slot meant proficiency with several like weapons.

Still, the groups weren't done well, imo. A battle axe and a hammer are both used, basically, in the same way, in a chopping motion. Yet, if you had proficiency with the battle axe in either 1E or 2E (even with the 2E rule additons), you couldn't spend one proficiency for both of those weapons.

The Conan game goes the other direction. Conan was proficienct in a lot of weapons, and so will be your character in that RPG. There are broad categories of weapons (I'm assuming D&D 3.0/3.5 is the exact same thing) like Simple, Martial, Exotic, Primitive, etc. You used a Feat, usually given to the character for free based on his class, to get proficiencty with all the weapons in category.

Still, I find that there are problems. The war spear is a Martial Weapon. The Hunting Spear is a Simple Weapon, but it also has a Primitive Weapon counter part.

So, if you want to be proficient with all three types of spears, then you need all three Feats. That's kinda crazy.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Wow, things I miss:

Followers... Back in the day it took 20+ people to really go after a dragon, without henchman, hireling and followers, a dragon fight was tantamount to suicide. With 3.5 you had to take a feat to get followers (and it was a feat after 6th level) usually only a fighter would have the slot to take it, and they usually wanted other combat oriented feats.

Strongholds... yeah, it's related to followers, but I remember the nice house I bought in town as a thief in 1st level, one story, 2 rooms, simple...with a trap door leading down to an underground complex I had dug by expendable labor (ie they dug and then they died to keep my secrets) that connected to various banks, warehouses, bars and money lenders (as well as one exit down by the docks, just in case).

Mapping... When we didn't use minis, mapping was a great thing to foist off on the newbie to watch their head swim... "The room is approximately 40' x 60 with congruent angles running at 45 degrees counterwise to the opposing door. The roof pitches in majestic arcs that peak above your sight line. There is a hallway leading away from the room at a 62 degree angle running south and may be sloping a bit as well...is there a dwarf that can check?" Ah, good times.

 

[pukunui]

RE: weapon proficiencies - when I ran a D&D 3.5 game, I used the optional "weapon group proficiencies" rule from Unearthed Arcana. You can find it here: Weapon Group Feats :: d20srd.org

Star Wars Saga Edition does a pretty good job delineating weapon groups: pistols, rifles, heavy weapons, simple weapons (which includes both ranged and melee weapons), advanced melee weapons, lightsabers and exotic weapons.

 

[Water Bob]

I remember something else about 1E AD&D that was neat. Remember in that old PHB, the weapon tables showed the actual length of the weapon? I think that disappeared in 2E.

The reason that was there in 1E was that, on the first round of combat, the longer weapon attacked first--no initiative roll needed. There after, longer weapons would attack last.

So, if you used a two-handed sword, you got the first attack in, then suffered being last all the time after that. It seems to be that the 1d6 initiaive throw was only rolled when weapons were of the same relative length...I think. Something like that.

 

[jbear]

Am I allowed to participate in the thread if I don't miss any of these rules? I don't want to dereail the thread.

I'll be brief. In short I don't miss rules that require me looking them up in books because they are too complex to memorise. I really (REALLY REALLY) love being able to play without opening a single book all session, session after session. My players aren't exactly the Speedsters when it comes to getting the game moving or when it comes to combat. So anything that would slow us down further isn't missed.

 

[Water Bob]

Am I allowed to participate in the thread if I don't miss any of these rules?

Nope. OK, then. Thanks for stopping. Bye-Bye now.

I'll be brief. In short I don't miss rules that require me looking them up in books because they are too complex to memorise. I really (REALLY REALLY) love being able to play without opening a single book all session, session after session.

The above was a funny.

But, this is a real comment/question: What game are you playing? D&D and the d20 system (and I'm guessing 4E as well) is the most detailed, most rule-oriented role playing game in existence.

I'd believe that you've been playing so long that you've got all the rules you use memorized and can repeat 'em in a moment's notice, but what you say above doesn't really describe D&D or the d20 system.

 

[Crothian]

The above was a funny.

But, this is a real comment/question: What game are you playing? D&D and the d20 system (and I'm guessing 4E as well) is the most detailed, most rule-oriented role playing game in existence.

I'd believe that you've been playing so long that you've got all the rules you use memorized and can repeat 'em in a moment's notice, but what you say above doesn't really describe D&D or the d20 system.

When I run d20 the only use we have for books is players looking up spells. We never have to look up much of the other stuff. But that is not as important to this discussion.

What the other poster is forgetting is those table did not have to be looked up in books as they were mostly on the DM screen. And they were table the DM used not the player. The player had very little reason to look up anything. Well, spells mostly that hasn't changed.

So, that's really what I miss. The DM screen with all of these table on it that makes the game unique. When I ran 1e at Gen Con last year a good friend purposely tracked down a screen for me for this very reason.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Nope. OK, then. Thanks for stopping. Bye-Bye now.





The above was a funny.

But, this is a real comment/question: What game are you playing? D&D and the d20 system (and I'm guessing 4E as well) is the most detailed, most rule-oriented role playing game in existence.

I'd believe that you've been playing so long that you've got all the rules you use memorized and can repeat 'em in a moment's notice, but what you say above doesn't really describe D&D or the d20 system.

Nope, Hackmaster and the Hero System puts the d20 system to shame.

 

[Water Bob]

When I run d20 the only use we have for books is players looking up spells. We never have to look up much of the other stuff.

And, I'm saying that's because you (I'll focus on 3.5 because I'm currently playing a version of it, but you can insert other rules from another edition to make the same point) have memorized the specifics of running a charge, or all the prerequisites for the Feats you use in your game, or the particulars of a race, a class ability, how long a torch burns, how far out undead can be turned, and a bunch of other minutia.

It takes some playing a while to get over that learning curve. So, if you play without ever opening up a book, you've either got it all memorized, or you're playing with a GM who IS THE RULEBOOK and makes up his own stuff on the fly, or you're not playing D&D.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[jbear]

Hehe ... you had me going there for a second.

The non-mention of system was deliberate. I don't want this thread to turn into "this edition is better than that"

But since you asked, and it's your thread, I am playing 4e. It's very rules light compared to 3e. To be honest the whole 'not stopping the game to check how that works' is the biggest positive change for me.