Things that you would like to see change/go away?

Andor

First Post
So what parts of 3.5ed would you like to see go away, or change in 4e?

For myself I'd like to see DR revisited. I find it counter-intuituve that for most of the outsiders their DR is effective against everybody except their greatest enemies. ... Huh? What's the point of an Angel/Archon having DR/Evil? Who is he going to be fighting that isn't evil?

DR/Silver or Cold Iron or (less so) Adamantine I like. These are flavorful and evocotive and provide a good base. DR/Magic? Meh. Kinda pointless. It's like DR/Not-a-commoner. The DR/Alignments? Gotta go.
 

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For DR, I want smaller increments; the 5/10/15 is still too large (hey, it's better than the 10 to 50 DR of 3rd!) and makes the dual-wielders (already weak) suck miserably.

I'd also like it if all spells that do energy-type damage apply energy resistance rather than spell resistance. This would also eliminate the whole 'Orb' line of spells, which are OBVIOUSLY evocations not conjurations.

Oh, and the categories of spells need rework. When not even the game designers can keep the categories straight something has to give.
 

I would like to see armor adding to AC replaced by something akin to the Armor as Damage reduction rules in Unearthed Arcana.

Likewise I'd like to see the Class Defense Bonus rules from the same book.

I dont really have an issue with damage reduction as it is now, except that DR/magic probably does need some work.

I would like to see the Cleric class removed, but I know thats not going to happen, so i'd like to see it balanced. And maybe, hopefully some of its thematic issues at least improved.

I'd like to see alignment restrictions for base classes removed.

I'd like to see Wizards become true but balanced masters of magic in general across the levels, instead of lacking several key/obvious effects for most of their careers then suddenly at very high level having a few spells that are senselesly overpowered.

I'd like to see spellcasting become more similar to its fictional depictions, which looks like its going to happen somewhat.

I'd like to see class capability and endurance in combat made more even, which also appears to be happening.

Theres several other things like mobility and magic item depedency that I'd like to see, but that we already pretty much know are going to happen.

I'd like to see less emphasis on specific "origins" of classes abilities in their descreptions.


Thats whats springing to mind right now.
 

Alignment be made less of a game effect. For instance evil creatures should mean nothing unless they have an evil aura (Like demons, undead, evil priests etc)

Skills simplified in two ways: skill points and number of skills no more rope use skills.

Everyone should get the same number of skill points. Fighters should spend them on fighter skills and wizards on wizard and rogues on rogues

Skills should not be tied to the characters levels, you should be able to have a low level master weaponsmith.

Multi-classing rules that actually work. Or classes that can be multi-classed like at first level.

Prestige classes gone.

All class features and combat feats (turn undead, bardic music, sneak attack, power attack, weapon finesse) become maneuvers or divine spells etc. Have characters decide what their class features and combat feats be- not have them chosen for them.

Have arcane magic based on INT, divine magic based on CHA and psionic magic based on WIS. Psions should have the will save bonus.

AC should be damage absorbtion
Dodging should be not getting hit
They should be different

Energy drain should be 2 con damage

Poison should be broader to include HP damage too.

Save or die effects should be removed. In favor of damage or some other penalty.

The game should be designed so that rules look ups be at a minimum.

Generally simplify all maneuvers (trip disarm etc).

Make size a 2 point bonus or penalty. Just like stats their should be no cap on either end. (well maybe on the lower end). Example: a pixie could be size: -6. That would mean +6 to sneak but -6 to grapple etc.

Get rid of attacks of opportunity, and the funky reach rules in relation to them.

nuf'
 

Sadrik said:
Have arcane magic based on INT, divine magic based on CHA and psionic magic based on WIS. Psions should have the will save bonus.

I totally agree with that. Makes sense for clerics to need CHA over WIS since clerics are advocates of their gods. Does any 3rd party book take this approach?

But...how would you differentiate between wizards and sorcerers? Granted, 'one uses INT, the other CHA' isn't enough to hang a hat on in the first place. Hopefully, their spell mechanics will be different enough that they could both use INT (and keep it simple...arcane=INT across the board.)
 

Sadrik said:
Save or die effects should be removed. In favor of damage or some other penalty.


Reduced maybe. Brought into line with other magical offensive options (either by scaling them down or the other options up) definitely. Removed, I'm not so sure.



All class features and combat feats (turn undead, bardic music, sneak attack, power attack, weapon finesse) become maneuvers or divine spells etc. Have characters decide what their class features and combat feats be- not have them chosen for them.


This would result in something close to a classless system, which is unlikely in D&D.



Prestige classes gone.


I think this may happen, and I'm not very happy with it. I think Base Classes and Prestige Classes is not a bad arrangement.


Have arcane magic based on INT, divine magic based on CHA and psionic magic based on WIS. Psions should have the will save bonus.


Or better yet, simply do away with the silly monolithic divides and simply have magic be magic, with ability score and other elements decided on a class by class basis.



Everyone should get the same number of skill points. Fighters should spend them on fighter skills and wizards on wizard and rogues on rogues


I think everyone should get more skill points, but I'm not sure about everyone getting the same number. Certain classes are skill focused as part of their nature, and should probably recieve more.
 

On my first run through:
1. General
- Fewer Absolutes (Sean K Reynolds): I asked for this in my pre 3e questionaire
- Slower Advancement
- Extend the sweet spot (for me it levels 3-10 or 3-12)
- eliminate the Christmas Tree Syndrome.
- No experience loss for creating magic items or casting certain spells. Find other penalties.
- remove interative attacks as a standar feature from all classes except the fighter. Make a feat requirement for other classes.
- leveling to 30th level


2. Races:
- I want to see cultural elements seperate from biological elements.
- Change immunities to bonuses (Sean Reynold's Fewer Absolutes (although I mentioned this in my pre 3e questionaire)).

3. Classes
- I want to see the battle sorcerer its own class
- I want to see the following variant classes added as examples of customizing: Barbarian Hunter (UA), Cloistered Cleric (UA), Martial Rogue (UA), Wilderness Rogue (UA), Urban Ranger (UA), Champion of the Wilderness (Complete Champion Ranger variant), Holy Warrior (Complete Champion Paladin variant).

Barbarian:
-I want to more cultural variation similar to 1e UA.
-Start proficient with Light armor at first level
-Gains Medium Armor proficiency at 3rd level
-I would like to see Rage become a feat

Bard:
-Rewriten away from Jack of all trades.
-Proficient with light armor at first level
- Medium Armor at 3rd level (if already taken as a feat, the character may take another feat)


Cleric
-More Priestly w/lower Hit die, no armor proficiency, only good will save unless tied to deity's domain
- more skill points
- sponanteous divine casting (UA) with a much smaller lists tied to the deity's domains and a small generic list (blessing, commune, curses, planar ally's (specific to deity)
- extend 9 spell levels over thirty levels to delay acquisition of higher level spells
- turn/rebuke moved to 3rd level (first level being domain ability)
- Divine Grace (as Paladin): It seemed to me that deities would protect their clerics especially the more powerful the cleric.

Druid
- make a cleric with specific domains
- Shapechange (PHB II) as an ability

Fighter
-Starts with Light Armor proficiency only. A first level character taking this class as it first class gets an extra fighter bonus feat.

- Medium Armor at 3rd level (if already taken as a feat, the character may take another fighter bonus feat for which they qualify)

- Heavy Armor Proficiency at 5th level (if already taken as a feat, the character may take another fighter bonus feat for which they qualify)

- skill points: 4+Int
- more class skills

Monk: rewrite
Unarmed Progression follows the OA Shaman
-add fighting styles (UA)
-immunities become bonus
-replace many of the abilities with Incarnum like mechanic for harnessing ki to improve strength, give dr (i.e, iron shirt), dim mak, etc.

Paladin
-Starts with Light Armor proficiency only. A first level character taking this class as it first class gets a bonus feat that may be spent on a divine feat, Medium armor proficiency

- gain Medium Armor at 3rd level (if already taken as a feat, the character may take another feat)
- gain Heavy Armor Proficiency at 5th level (if already taken as a feat, the character may take another feat)

- Immunity to disease replaced with a save bonus
- removal of the pokemount ability
- remove cure disease and lay hands (see next).
- grant spells at first level and the bard's spell progression with spells based on a deity's domains
-spontaneous divine casting

Ranger
- remove the animal companion. There is a feat that grants an animal companion so let the character take it.
- more combat styles
-grant spells at first level and the bard's spell progression.
-spontaneous casting

Rogue
-I would like to see the martial rogue become standard. That way rogues are a) not all sneak attack artists; and b) they are not saddled with an ability that makes them useless fighting certain creatures especially in a campaign that features such creatures.

- make sneak attack a feat. Anyone should be able to try a sneak attack

Sorcerer: There needs to be a reason to stay with this class and not jump to a PrC
-additional class skills: Diplomacy, Intimidation, Use Magical Device
-Eschew Materials: At first level the Sorcerer gain the Eschew Material Feat
-Bonus Metamagic: At levels 5,10,15,20, the sorcerer gains a bonus metamagic feat
4+ skill points
- extend 9 spell levels over thirty levels to delay acquisition of higher level spells

Wizard (or make a PrC for sorcerer's)
-Class Skills: add speak Language as wizards are learned
-Spell Points with vitalizing (Unearthed Arcana)
- extend 9 spell levels over thirty levels to delay acquisition of higher level spells


Wizard, Specialist
-Specialist Wizard variant abilities (Unearthed Arcana) become standard
-Specialist spell lists (e.g., 1e Illusionist)

additional classes:
battle sorcerer: flesh into full class
Shaman: see Green Ronin's Shaman
Witch:

4. Skills
- Remove Use Rope
- add the expanded skill material from Complete Adventurer and Races of the Wild
- add the urban/wilderness skill trade offs from the Cityscape enhancement

5. Feats
-add divine feats from Complete Divine
-ditch the +2/+2 feats or limit to first level
- use d20 Modern's Brawl, Combat MA, and Defensive MA feat trees.

6. Action Points (UA)

7. Weapon Groups (UA)

8. Combat
-Dex to hit
-Class Defense Bonus designed to work with Armor
-Armor as DR
- More maneuvers: There is no reason one should need a feat to try power attack or to throw sand in someone's face. Feats should just make it easier to do.
- Death and Dying as Per (UA)
- Fatigue and Exhaustion from Hit Point Loss
- remove % to stabilize. Require a save
-add Book of Iron Might like maneuvers systen . Characters should be able to try maneuvers several times in a combat. The risk of the maneuvers (e.g., hit penalties) should be what discourages multiple use by less skilled combatants not some per encounter limit.

9. Poison
- Continuous Damage as per Sean K Reynolds web article
- as spell designator as per Sean K Reynolds web article

10. Saves
- add the medium save
- the +2 bonus for good saves can only be recieved once for each category

11. Magic
-Keep Vancian slots for Divine casters. Call Prayers or something similar and have the slots be the number of prayers the deity answers each day.

- For arcane. Use Spellpoints w/ vitalizing (UA) and maybe borrow from Complete Psionic for scaling. Or a system like one of the following
----- ELements of Magic
----- Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth
----- Psychics Handbook

- No exp loss for casting certain spells. Find some other alternative
- Remove the target's level or hit die having a direct effect on reducing or negating a spell's effect (e.g., sleep or color spray) from the spell description. Replace with stage effects by how much the target misses the saving throw.

- Save or die spells. Make staged effects by how much the target missed the save.


12. Equipment
- ditch Urgrosh's, spiked chains, dire flails, double bladed swords etc. (reintroduce in a supplement).
- ditch halfling riding dogs
- ditch tanglefoot bags, sunrods and other alchemical items (reintroduce in a supplement)
- add in missing armor from earlier editions (e.g., Brigandine, Lamellar, Ring)
- add in missing weapons from previous editions (e.g., Atatl, blowgun, bolas, cutlas, Khopesh Sword and lucerne hammer)
 



People that whine about stuff they really don't know much about? :)

Oh, and alignment.

And save or die. Save or useless is almost as bad.

And christmas tree PCs.

And 47 different temporary modifiers to track on my 17th level fighter. You can put buff/strike/rest, with this one.
 

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