Thinking about Warhammer?

[Rel]

So, i'm thinking that if i run WFRP, i might not run it as dark and grim and loathesome as the default. I might give the players a few more magic items and potions than typically done (with the chance of backfiring and poisoning them, as per the charts in Realms of Sorcery!).

I think this is an entirely valid choice (it's more or less what I did when I ran my Pirates of the Caribbean Warhammer game). However I think one of the joys of WFRP is how, especially early on, the little things mean a lot. In the early going, when the PC's gear is most likely very crappy, just finding some untainted food or nice bedding is a real treat.

That doesn't mean that the entirety of the campaign has to be, "Well we slept in the mud all night but at least our throats weren't slit, so that's something!" Just that the gradual creep up from rags to riches starts so low that finding "nicer rags than the ones you were wearing" is a decent treasure. One day when the PC's are in their third career and are considered heroes by the locals, they'll look back with fondness on that time they found that silver candlestick that was enough to buy them a chain shirt from the blacksmith with enough left over to keep them in beer for a week.

When I played in another GM's WFRP game, we managed to survive a couple encounters with undead in Karak Azgal and get our hands on two full sets of chainmail. We (the other Dwarf and I) were THRILLED that we had some decent armor. Later we were defeated by some Goblins and stripped of our gear but were lucky enough (i.e. spent a Fate Point) to get rescued by another adventuring party. No sooner had we been rescued than we resolved that we had to go back IMMEDIATELY to try and recover that armor. It was priceless to us. And this is just regular chain armor I'm talking about.

Good times and I don't think you get that feel with every system out there so I tend to savor it with WFRP.

 

[Nebulous]

Good times and I don't think you get that feel with every system out there so I tend to savor it with WFRP.

Yeah, good points about savoring the little things. I haven't actually played the game yet so i'm probably assuming too much. I think it also takes a good roleplaying crowd to really enjoy sleeping in the mud and not getting your throat slit as "reward" for a day's hard work!

 

[Sanzuo]

I think this is an entirely valid choice (it's more or less what I did when I ran my Pirates of the Caribbean Warhammer game). However I think one of the joys of WFRP is how, especially early on, the little things mean a lot. In the early going, when the PC's gear is most likely very crappy, just finding some untainted food or nice bedding is a real treat.

That doesn't mean that the entirety of the campaign has to be, "Well we slept in the mud all night but at least our throats weren't slit, so that's something!" Just that the gradual creep up from rags to riches starts so low that finding "nicer rags than the ones you were wearing" is a decent treasure. One day when the PC's are in their third career and are considered heroes by the locals, they'll look back with fondness on that time they found that silver candlestick that was enough to buy them a chain shirt from the blacksmith with enough left over to keep them in beer for a week.

When I played in another GM's WFRP game, we managed to survive a couple encounters with undead in Karak Azgal and get our hands on two full sets of chainmail. We (the other Dwarf and I) were THRILLED that we had some decent armor. Later we were defeated by some Goblins and stripped of our gear but were lucky enough (i.e. spent a Fate Point) to get rescued by another adventuring party. No sooner had we been rescued than we resolved that we had to go back IMMEDIATELY to try and recover that armor. It was priceless to us. And this is just regular chain armor I'm talking about.

Good times and I don't think you get that feel with every system out there so I tend to savor it with WFRP.

Man this makes me want to run this game more and more.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle item economy and player loot? The core book is the only thing I have and it mentions really only vaguely on how to give monetary rewards to the players. I could see selling weapons and armor the players loot as being their primary source of income. How much should the PCs be getting back for selling loot? (Loot, of course being a rickety hand cart which I believe is currently the most valuable item the players have.)* I'm thinking if the players want to sell something the NPC would start at a ridiculous bottom-line price of like, say, 10% of the actual value. And if the PC has some slick negotiating skills they might be able to talk him up to 50%.

As far as liquid assets, I've been rolling 2d10 in copper pennies for randomly being on typical dirtbag NPCs.

*Now that I think about it, when we last saw our "heroes" they were running like mad through dense woodlands from a small town where they had just committed assault, triple murder, robbery and arson. So I'm not sure they brought their cart with them.

 

[Nebulous]

*Now that I think about it, when we last saw our "heroes" they were running like mad through dense woodlands from a small town where they had just committed assault, triple murder, robbery and arson. So I'm not sure they brought their cart with them.

Is their cart loaded? I'd give then an ultimatum: "The authorities are going to catch you if you keep pushing that cart of stolen stuff through the woods." or "Ditch that cart and run like hell! If you're lucky you might get away..."

 

[Rel]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to handle item economy and player loot? The core book is the only thing I have and it mentions really only vaguely on how to give monetary rewards to the players. I could see selling weapons and armor the players loot as being their primary source of income.

Let me offer a few suggestions here:

Early on the PC's are going to be threatened by almost anything they fight. A Peasant with a pitchfork is a non-trivial challenge that probably won't defeat the group but could land a lucky hit and kill any single player. So make thier early foes approximately as pathetic as the PC's. Unarmored Goblins with clubs are a threat. And the PC's won't walk away from that fight with six suits of mail, shield and weapon.

However don't overdo it. Let them come away with something besides bruises and scars. If the Goblin leader has a shield, a helmet and a sturdy cleaver (Hand Weapon) with the word "Kutter" scrateched on the side of it, the PC's will ever after cherrish Kutter and speak of it in awed reverence each time it is buried in the skull of an Orc. But you should make sure that the inside of the helmet smells "like a goblin's ear" and, no matter how much they wash it, they just can't get that smell out.

My point here is that low level foes often have gear that is of such a low quality that literally nobody wants to buy it. The blacksmith might give them "a few pennies each" for the goblin spearheads since he can melt down the metal and make something worthwhile out of it. Otherwise that smelly leather armor is something nobody wants.

Later on the PC's will be facing bad guys with more standard gear. At first some of this stuff may go to round out the PC's own equipment. It was a glorious day for the Vagabond in our group when he got rid of the patchwork of moldy leather armor he'd scavenged together and replaced it with a (mechanically identical) suit of "clean" leather armor we got from a thug we killed. For the next few sessions we all commented on how nice it was that "the Vagabond no longer smells like feet!"

But sooner or later the PC's will want to sell off some decent gear. And you should let them, to a point, because they earned it. Combat in WFRP can be deadly dangerous and to the victor goes the spoils. But the limit aside from supply is demand. There are only so many chain shirts that the local town needs before they start refusing to buy. And remember, those chain shirts were looted off of bad guys that the PC's killed. They probably need some repairs so that will reduce their resale value.

As before, they may quickly get to the point that the only person with any need for those scraps of armor and nicked weapons is the local blacksmith who can melt it down. And he doesn't have unlimited funds. Let him barter with them, offering to sharpen their weapons up "to a razor's edge" so that they give a +5% to Weapon Skill for one battle rather than pay them cash.

Another method you can use is to pay them in favors. Having a local lord "owe you a solid" is really sweet. And such a lord may have troops that he's trying to outfit. He might let the PC's know that he would be "forever in their debt" if they'd donate some of that armor they got from the Orcs to his military under construction.

Anyway, that's just a few things to consider. I'm sure others have similar ideas.

 

[Teflon Billy]

...Anyway, that's just a few things to consider. I'm sure others have similar ideas.

Most of the early "treasure" in my previous Warhammer campaigns has been along the lines of Food (many, many battles are/were fought under the effects of the starvation rules), well-made clothing and crap where it was unclear if it was even treasure (a string of bone beads from around a Goblin's neck, totally worthless. His spear, totally worthless. The metal spearhead and end-cap on the spear staff...worth a few pennies as raw material for a smith)

There was an entire span of the campaign in the Border Principalities where the characters signed on with a robber baron for 3 meals a day, "looting privileges"--third in line--and a barracks with a hearth and fire (they were wounded, it was winter and they needed somewhere to hole up).

That was the best deal they ever got from any of the Border Princes.

It sounds stingy, and coming from a background of D&D...it totally is.

But not all games are meant to emulate what someone (whose name eludes me) described as Tom Clancy's Lord of the Rings. Tons of "stuff" doesn't model the Warhammer setting well.

The idea that you would have to clearly delineate how many body "slots" a character has so they can choose from their myriad magic items which "kit" to go with is just anathema to the Warhammer setting (and, to my mind, most of the Fantasy fiction I try to emulate in my games...but that is another thread)

Once the players get used to the new paradigm, if your adventures are compelling, it becomes the new normal.

Think of Food as a "healing" or "restoration" potion that cures the "Stat Damage" from...starvation. Which is pretty common.

And remember, "Magic Items" in this setting aren't analogous D&D "Treasure"...they are analogous to D&D "Traps"

 

[Sanzuo]

Is their cart loaded? I'd give then an ultimatum: "The authorities are going to catch you if you keep pushing that cart of stolen stuff through the woods." or "Ditch that cart and run like hell! If you're lucky you might get away..."

No they just had the cart ITSELF, which they killed a bag-lady/beggar person for. And on reflection they definitely left it behind. Also I forgot they murdered a town guard as they fled. So that's four people. The bag-lady, two inn bouncers and the guard. They're deep in it.

 

[Teflon Billy]

No they just had the cart ITSELF, which they killed a bag-lady/beggar person for. And on reflection they definitely left it behind. Also I forgot they murdered a town guard as they fled. So that's four people. The bag-lady, two inn bouncers and the guard. They're deep in it.

Feh! They just need to get to the next town. No way is anyone from a little hamlet going to follow them through the wilderness.

If somebody with money actually cares if any of those folks bit the dust, they might need to look out for Bounty Hunters, but otherwise they just need to make themselves scarce.

The worst part is that, as a pair of Dwarves, they are easily recognizable.

 

[TheNovaLord]

You've made your feelings about this game pretty well known. I'm curious as to what is compelling you to post further in this thread.

cos im curious as too why all the inns in whfrp-world get burnt down, and why its one of those games people see through, IMO, rose tinted glasses....but mostly as too why people burn down all the inns.

interested to read other peoples thoughts. I have tried a fair number of times to get into it, but lose heart to its ugly mechanics and silly, rather than gritty feel.

still, people seem to be enjoying it so i will bug out the thread. originally wanted to just post a balanced counter view

 

[Teflon Billy]

cos im curious as too why all the inns in whfrp-world get burnt down, and why its one of those games people see through, IMO, rose tinted glasses....but mostly as too why people burn down all the inns.

I'm not sure, but you aren't imagining it. It happens at least once in most games I've played, happened in the game mentioned in this very thread and happens fairly often in the Warhammer Novels

As to "why" though? I have no answer for you.

interested to read other peoples thoughts. I have tried a fair number of times to get into it, but lose heart to its ugly mechanics and silly, rather than gritty feel.

The mechanics in the new edition are basically sound, but a certain "silliness" has always bee a part of it. You aren't imagining that either, I think it's a feature rather than a bug though. Too much "grim grim grim grim" uninterrupted is as dull as the "everything is Wonderful" feel of FR over the long haul.

still, people seem to be enjoying it so i will bug out the thread. originally wanted to just post a balanced counter view

Adios