D&D 5E (2024) This Feels Like 4E

[Neonchameleon]

So you're saying D&D should work to exclude players like that??

Not to exclude them. Just to empower the DM to apply the rolled up newspaper. But this is where the "rules as user interface" and "rules as physics engine" people are on different sides; weapon juggling is as much an obvious exploit as the bag of rats or the peasant railgun.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Just to empower the DM to apply the rolled up newspaper.

You can’t empower a DM into a good leader with rules. That’s a combination of aptitude and practice. Advice, and a willingness to listen, help though.

 

[mamba]

I think there is a large difference between the game presenting a no-brainer choice, and the game punishing you if you don't make that choice.

In the latter case, yeah, the game is pretty much responsible. If the PC will be just fine if they don't make that choice, though, it isn't the game's fault if the player makes it.

that is a very fine line, I see little difference between ‘you deal less damage if you do not swap weapons’ and ‘the game punishes you if you do not swap’.

You can say that it rewards doing so rather than punishes not doing so, but rewards encourage a certain behavior just as much as punishment deters from it

 

[mamba]

nvm

 

[mamba]

Is doing something that isn't fun, is unnecessary, and is clearly against the design intent a common human behaviour? We need to get ourselves some better humans!

The last decade has firmly established that we desperately need better humans, but we are stuck with what we have instead, so good luck with that

 

[MichaelSomething]

You can’t empower a DM into a good leader with rules. That’s a combination of aptitude and practice. Advice, and a willingness to listen, help though.

Which is why I advocate that new DMs undergo apprenticeships under veteran DM to learn how to run games.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Which is why I advocate that new DMs undergo apprenticeships under veteran DM to learn how to run games.

It’s always good if possible.

Or do teacher training, the skills are very transferable!

 

[Neonchameleon]

You can’t empower a DM into a good leader with rules. That’s a combination of aptitude and practice. Advice, and a willingness to listen, help though.

You can however model best practice in the DMG. And explain the purpose of actually having rules and their relationship with the game world.

Which is why I advocate that new DMs undergo apprenticeships under veteran DM to learn how to run games.

This is a good idea with two caveats:

• Not everyone starting out has a veteran DM to hand; the expectation as written into the books should be that this is unnecessary if desirable
• The worst DMs I've played with have been not newbies but veterans who've had their bad habits bed in. (That said there's survivor bias so the chances of getting a bad veteran DM is lower).