This is what Epic heroes are supposed to be like - Jet Li's "Hero"

[FireLance]

To those of you who have seen Hero, can you answer a simple question for me? Why can he do the things he does? If you can answer that, the chances of me liking this movie will greatly improve. Is he "The Chosen One"? A god? Bitten by a mutant spider?

I hated CT,HD. Why? Because of the rediculousness of it. "I am a master of martial arts. Oh and I can walk on water and fly."

While there is no doubt martial arts is tied to mystical energies, CT,HD never really got into it. the lack of any explaination made it silly to me. It was like saying "I'm an awesome football player! Watch me tackle this sky-scraper to the ground!"

Like a number of other posters have already mentioned, it's a genre convention. Chinese wuxia or martial arts literature has a long history of larger-than-life heros who do fantastic things like paralyze others with a touch, fly through the air, walk on water, shoot beams of energy from their hands, or cause an opponent's blood vessels to burst by strumming a tune on a stringed musical instrument.

Almost every competent martial arts exponent is expected to have certain basic abilities, most typically qing gong ("lightness skill"), the ability to reduce your weight and thus make tremendous leaps, "fly", walk on water or use its surface tension as a solid surface to jump on, etc.

 

[hong]

I can't really decide on Hero. It was very, very pretty, and watching Maggie Cheung do a spot-on impersonation of Brigitte Lin was great fun (heck, watching Maggie do ANYTHING is great fun).

But it felt kind of flat. Lacking in exuberance, I'd say. Better than CTHD, but then I hated that picture. Mainly because of Zhang Zi-yi, who I just think can't act worth a darn and is not even a little bit convincing as a fighter. And is really unattractive, to boot. Man, watching her get her little acting butt handed to her on a platter by Maggie and Tony Leung and Jet Li would be entertaining if it weren't so distracting. I hope people stop casting her in things soon. She's a problem. So Hero does better on that score, since she's in it less.

Neither picture even approaches the glory days of Hong Kong cinema, in the 80's and 90's, when action meant ACTION.

This pigeonholing approach of yours is kinda silly. Just because a movie contains action scenes doesn't mean that other aspects of the filmmaking art are therefore redundant. It certainly doesn't mean that if it decides to take a slower-paced approach, that's automatically a reason to mark it down.

While the movies of the 90s may have been full of frenetic action, they often also skipped over things like characterisation, consistency of tone or pacing, production values, etc. Just because certain things may be trademarks of the HK movie industry doesn't mean they're actually desired or desirable: a low-budget B-movie is a low-budget B-movie, whether it's made in Hollywood, HK, Mumbai or wherever.

Why, next thing you know, you'll be saying that Pride and Prejudice sucks because they don't get into enough fights.

But then I watched Hero on a Chinese DVD without English subtitles so I may have missed great subtleties in the story.

Oh yes.

And BTW Barsoom, Brigitte Lin kicks all over Maggie Cheung.

 

[WizarDru]

Neither picture even approaches the glory days of Hong Kong cinema, in the 80's and 90's, when action meant ACTION.

But then I watched Hero on a Chinese DVD without English subtitles so I may have missed great subtleties in the story. I'd like to see it in the theatre and give it a fighting chance. Have to convince Mrs. Barsoom, though -- she HATED it.

You know, I'm beginning to think that I should assume you dislike an upcoming film, and that wait to see if you suprise me.

Personally, I'm eager to see Hero, especially based on all the reviews I've gotten from friends and others.

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to compare current fare to the glory days, when Hong Kong's output is so dramatically reduced, these days. They've adapted to fewer and more expensive productions, which I'm sure has an influence on the content. I mean, the Storm Riders, The Duel, a Man called Hero and others certainly had plenty of action...but if you mean that they have a lot more pathos, I'm right with you.

Of course, I consider Hong Kong's golden days to be the 70s and 80s, as I have the mad love for the Shaw Brothers. "Roofer" kung-fu? Oh yeah, I'm there.

And hong, no love for Fong Sai Yuk I and II?

 

[Sorren]

I'd say, actually, that there is doubt.

Let me revise my comment:

"There is no doubt martial arts is tied to scientificly unexplainable energies."

Whether it's "mystical" or simply something scientific we can't yet explain, martial artists have been doing things for years that scientists can only marvel at. As the western world comes to understand the eastern world better, we see more of these "mystical" feats reliably performed and studied under controlled conditions.

 

[zen_hydra]

Looks like a remake of kill bill (has to beat the best assassins....).... Still it has jet li in so I might see it....

Don't rush to that conclusion based on the trailer. This movie is nothing like Kill Bill story wise. I think this movie has more in common with Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon. The action (while showcased), is not the core element of this film. I will say no more for risk of spoilers, but this movie isquite deep. It is certainly the most story oriented film that I have seen Jet Li play in.

 

[Welverin]

When does this hit theatres?

Friday.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Let me revise my comment:

"There is no doubt martial arts is tied to scientificly unexplainable energies."

Whether it's "mystical" or simply something scientific we can't yet explain, martial artists have been doing things for years that scientists can only marvel at. As the western world comes to understand the eastern world better, we see more of these "mystical" feats reliably performed and studied under controlled conditions.

Like what?

Now I've seen a group of monks do this thing where they raise thier body temperature enough to dry out wet sheets while squatting in below freezing caves. You could actually see the steam begin to pour off them not long after the sheets were draped over thier otherwise naked forms. That was wild.

What unexplainable martial arts stuff are you referring to?

 

[barsoomcore]

This pigeonholing approach of yours is kinda silly. Just because a movie contains action scenes doesn't mean that other aspects of the filmmaking art are therefore redundant.

Good point, hong. And if I ever claim that other aspects of the filmmaking art are redundant, you be sure to point it out, will you?

Who's pigeonholing? I said it felt flat. It lacked exuberance. I said one of the actors is terrible, while noting that the others were really good.

I think these are true things. And I think a film that feels flat is a problem.

It doesn't mean that a film can't be slow and measured and STILL work. I love slow and stately films -- if they're good. I didn't mark Hero down because it was slow -- I marked it down because it was dull. My comparision with HK films from ten years ago is that there are so many pictures from those days that, whatever else their qualities, are never dull. I'm talking less about the action choreography (though I think that has suffered in recent years, too) and more about the story-telling -- which doesn't have to be frenetic, but has to be laden with tension. Hero lacked tension for me.

I freely admit, possibly because I couldn't follow what anyone was saying. But I remember watching Dragon Inn and Chungking Express and Swordsman II in exactly the same way and being blown away. Hero didn't blow me away. Is all I'm saying.

Why, next thing you know, you'll be saying that Pride and Prejudice sucks because they don't get into enough fights.

You disagree?

And BTW Barsoom, Brigitte Lin kicks all over Maggie Cheung.

I'm not going there. I love them both too much to decide. I'm just saying, watching Maggie impersonate Brigitte was immensely entertaining. I would never interfere with another man's love of Brigitte Lin. No sir.

I'm an awesome football player! Watch me tackle this sky-scraper to the ground!

Shaolin Soccer, anyone?

 

[barsoomcore]

You know, I'm beginning to think that I should assume you dislike an upcoming film, and that wait to see if you suprise me.

Yeah, that's fair.

I'm pretty tough on films, I know. What it is, to be honest, is that I'm always looking for what held a film back from being the jaw-dropping, mind-blowing experience that is a great film. When a film doesn't completely smack me out of the park, I look for reasons why. Because, as somebody who makes films, I'm always interested in seeing what other people did wrong, and trying to draw lessons from it.

I don't think I enjoy films less than other people. Honestly. I love going to movies, even if I come out complainy and all, "This didn't work! I hated that!" -- that's FUN for me. Because it gets my brain going and my critical faculties revved up and that's a big part of enjoying art for me -- critical analysis.

That might make me less fun to talk about movies with, I admit. And I apologise -- I have no wish to trample on other people's fun. And I don't insist that other people agree with me. I like to hear dissenting opinions because I want to know how other people see things -- so I try to ask questions or post my thoughts in the hopes that other people will respond and I'll get that "click" in my head as I see it from their point of view.

I don't always do a good job of that, I know. I'm trying.

My wife and I have largely abandoned going to movies with other people -- either they get annoyed with our post-film dissection OR they talk during the picture.

And people who talk during a movie have, as far as I'm concerned, voluntarily given up all the human rights. Grrrrr....

I'm not sure it's entirely fair to compare current fare to the glory days, when Hong Kong's output is so dramatically reduced, these days. They've adapted to fewer and more expensive productions, which I'm sure has an influence on the content. I mean, the Storm Riders, The Duel, a Man called Hero and others certainly had plenty of action...but if you mean that they have a lot more pathos, I'm right with you.

Not fair? Well, I dunno. What I find most deplorable is the state of the acting in Hong Kong these days. The Storm Riders and The Twins Effect both suffered from sub-par performances, I thought. I mean, plotwise, it's pretty hard to defend something like Swordsman II -- I've seen that film a zillion times and I'm not sure I really know 100% what's going on. But Brigitte and Jet and everyone else in it are so absolutely committed to whatever it is they're doing that you end up not caring. Ekin Cheng has a great look, but he's no Chow Yun-Fat or Tony Leung (either one). I think we got lucky for a while there -- Hong Kong had a startling combination of fearless director/producers, creative choreographers and cinematographers, and immensely talented actors -- which combined with just the right economic conditions resulted in a period of really intense creativity and productivity. Many of those people have left, or gotten too old to maintain their former levels (God love you, Jackie Chan, but you'll never make Supercop again), or just aren't doing those kinds of films anymore (I'm thrilled Maggie has a Best Actress at Cannes, but I sure wish she was going to be in Police Story IV) and new blood hasn't filled the vacancies.

So I guess if by "not fair" we mean, "there's just not as many talented, creative people willing to risk lives and fortunes", then yeah, okay.

Of course, I consider Hong Kong's golden days to be the 70s and 80s, as I have the mad love for the Shaw Brothers. "Roofer" kung-fu? Oh yeah, I'm there.

Word. Last Vancouver festival they screened Come Drink With Me -- watching that stuff on the big screen is a whole new experience. Mad love is right.

 

[Olive]

Let me revise my comment:

"There is no doubt martial arts is tied to scientificly unexplainable energies."

And let me reiterate what Joshua said: there's doubt. I doubt, Johua probably doubts. So, thee's doubt all over.

Anyway, I'm looking frard to hero. I actually like CTHD better than any of the older hong kong martial arts films I've seen. And barsoomcore hated it, so I might love it even more than CTHD!