This Man Is Reading Way Too Much Into X2. "It's all about homosexuality."

[Jemal]

You can't defend both sides of this arguement, one side is that it's only about homosexuality and the other side is no it's about all outsider groups.

So is Clairmont a nut or have we all been misunderstanding what the comics have been about?

How about this...

Mutants IN GENERAL are about Predjudice IN GENERAL
X-men SPECIFICALLY are based on Homosexuality, but that's not ALL they're about. It may be one of the MAIN themes/undertones, but NO movie I have ever seen or heard of has ONLY ONE theme that it is based on to the exclusion of all others, therefore the article CAN'T be true. It probably WOULD have been true if the writer had said something along the lines of "One of the main themes of X2 is homosexuality" but saying a movie is ONLY about something, and that's ALL it's about is an outright falsehood.

 

[Mark]

How about this...

Mutants IN GENERAL are about Predjudice IN GENERAL
X-men SPECIFICALLY are based on Homosexuality, but that's not ALL they're about. It may be one of the MAIN themes/undertones, but NO movie I have ever seen or heard of has ONLY ONE theme that it is based on to the exclusion of all others, therefore the article CAN'T be true. It probably WOULD have been true if the writer had said something along the lines of "One of the main themes of X2 is homosexuality" but saying a movie is ONLY about something, and that's ALL it's about is an outright falsehood.

How about this...

Mutants IN GENERAL might be about Predjudice IN GENERAL X-men SPECIFICALLY were created by Stan Lee and we don't know exactly what he decided they were ALL about. Claremont who used Stan Lee's character and wrote some stories has apparently stated that his stories EVEN MORE SPECIFICALLY were about homosexuality. The movies, based on Stan Lee's characters may or may not be about homosexuality (and may in part be about homosexuality, or even may be all about homosexuality) but Scott Essman's experience (as described by that writer for the special article to the Los Angeles Times) with the movies, the stories and the X-men is apparently about homosexuality no matter how anyone else might feel about it.

Despite what Claremont might have to say about his specific stories, Essman contends that Singer took the same tack with the movie and Lee's characters as Claremont did. He states this as a fact and proceeds to follow it with many specific assumptions that, while not necessarily untrue, seem presumptuous without accompanying verification by Singer, Stan Lee, etal sans Claremont. I do not deny him the right to take from the watching of the movie his own interpretation but I do, without that verification, deny that the movie was necessarily that narrow when it can just as easily be so much more, to so many more, for so many reasons.

 

[jdavis]

How about this...

Mutants IN GENERAL might be about Predjudice IN GENERAL X-men SPECIFICALLY were created by Stan Lee and we don't know exactly what he decided they were ALL about. Claremont who used Stan Lee's character and wrote some stories has apparently stated that his stories EVEN MORE SPECIFICALLY were about homosexuality. The movies, based on Stan Lee's characters may or may not be about homosexuality (and may in part be about homosexuality, or even may be all about homosexuality) but Scott Essman's experience (as described by that writer for the special article to the Los Angeles Times) with the movies, the stories and the X-men is apparently about homosexuality no matter how anyone else might feel about it.

Despite what Claremont might have to say about his specific stories, Essman contends that Singer took the same tack with the movie and Lee's characters as Claremont did. He states this as a fact and proceeds to follow it with many specific assumptions that, while not necessarily untrue, seem presumptuous without accompanying verification by Singer, Stan Lee, etal sans Claremont. I do not deny him the right to take from the watching of the movie his own interpretation but I do, without that verification, deny that the movie was necessarily that narrow when it can just as easily be so much more, to so many more, for so many reasons.

Which was the point I was basically trying to make when I said that he was not the only writer, there have been tons of x titles and mutants have been a big part of every Marvel comic. I never meant to attack Chris Claremont's history with the x men or any marvel title he wrote, my point was that you cannot make that kind of oversimplified judgement, even if he did write half the comics out there he did not write them all:

Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #1 - 4
Age of Apocalypse One-Shots
Agent X #1 - 12
Alpha Flight (1st series) #1 - 100 Annuals, Specials
Amazing X-Men #1 - 4
Askani'Son #1 - 4
Astonishing X-Men (1st series) #1 - 4
Astonishing X-Men (2nd series) #1 - 3
Avengers West Coast
Blink #1 - 4
Cable (1st series) #1 - 2
Cable (2nd series) #1 - 107
Chamber #1 - 4
Classic X-Men #1 - 110
Cyclops #1 - 4
Deadpool (3rd series) #1 - 69
Excalibur #1 - 125 Annuals, Specials
Exiles #1 - Latest
Factor X #1 - 4
Firestar #1-4
Further Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #1 - 4
Gambit & Bishop #Alpha, 1 - 6
Gambit (1st series) #1 - 4
Gambit (3rd series) #1 - 25, Annuals, Specials
Gambit and the X-Ternals #1 - 4
Generation Next #1 - 4
Generation X #1 - 75, Annuals, Specials
Iceman (1st series) #1 - 4
Iceman (2nd series) #1 - 4
Imperial Guard #1 - 3
Kitty Pryde and Wolverine #1 - 6
Magik #1 - 4
Marvel Team-Up
Maverick #1 - 12
Mekanix #1 - 6
Morlocks #1 - 4
Mutant X #1 - 32, Annuals
Muties #1 - 6
Mystique #1 - Latest
New Mutants (1st series) #1- 100
New Mutants (2nd series) #1 - Latest, Annuals, Specials
New X-Men #1 - Latest; Annuals, Specials
Nightcrawler (2nd series) #1 - 4
One-Shots
Origin #1 - 6
Power Pack (1st series)
Quicksilver #1 - 13
Rogue (2nd series) #1 - 4
Sabretooth - Mary Shelley Overdrive
Soldier X #1 - 12
Starjammers #1 - 4
The Brotherhood #1 - 9
Ultimate War #1 - 4
Ultimate X-Men #1 - Latest, Special
Uncanny X-Men #1 - Latest, Annuals, Specials
Weapon X (1st series) #1 - 4
Weapon X (2nd series) #1 - Latest
Weapon X One-Shots )
Wolverine (2nd series) #1 - 189, Annuals, Specials
X.S.E. #1 - 4
X-51
X-Calibre #1 - 4
X-Factor (1st series) #1 - 149, Annuals, Specials
X-Factor (2nd series) #1 - 4
X-Force #1 - 129, Annuals
X-Man #1 - 75, Annuals, Specials
X-Men : Phoenix #1 - 3
X-Men 2099 #1 - 35, Specials, One-Shots
X-Men Chronicles #1 - 2
X-Men Forever #1 - 6
X-Men One-Shots
X-Men Spotlight On ... Starjammers #1 - 2
X-Men Unlimited #1 - Latest
X-Statix #1 - Latest
X-Terminators #1 - 4
X-Treme X-Men #1- Latest
X-Treme X-Men Savage Land #1 - 4
X-Treme X-Men X-Posé #1 - 2
X-Universe (1st series) #1 - 2

 

[Ferret]

I think he is in denile. He he he he he. I'm mean.

 

[fba827]

I don't believe you'll be able to know what it is really supposed to be about unless you ask the people who created it.

Anything else is just interpretation and you can speak post after post after post and not really have an answer because, plain and simple, we do not know.

Having said that, I think all that matters (be it in this or most art) is what does it mean to you?

Maybe it is about homosexuality?

Maybe it is about minority groups in general?

Maybe it is about those awkward feelings you have a youngester just wanting to fit in but never feeling normal (i.e. perceived minority group rather than an actual one and in this comic series the insecurities are manifested into a real tangible ability)

....

just my two cents.

 

[tarchon]

He goes a little too far I think, but there are some pretty clear references to anti-homosexualism (I dislike the term "homophobia" - eh). Plus, look who the two top marquee actors are - Stewart and McKellan, both strong proponents of... well... gayness. One gay guy I know (a non-comic reader) was just about floored by what he thought were gay references in it. I think maybe he was predisposed to interpret ambiguous things in that particular light, but it's hard to deny that there are a lot of situations and phrases that have a particular significance in gay subculture.

 

[jdavis]

I don't believe you'll be able to know what it is really supposed to be about unless you ask the people who created it.

Anything else is just interpretation and you can speak post after post after post and not really have an answer because, plain and simple, we do not know.

Having said that, I think all that matters (be it in this or most art) is what does it mean to you?

Maybe it is about homosexuality?

Maybe it is about minority groups in general?

Maybe it is about those awkward feelings you have a youngester just wanting to fit in but never feeling normal (i.e. perceived minority group rather than an actual one and in this comic series the insecurities are manifested into a real tangible ability)

....

just my two cents.

As I have said you would think the guy would of done a little research on the subject or even asked somebody involved, it's not hard to type x men into goggle (heck I had to just to keep up with this thread). A interpretation is fine but he stated it as what it was not what he interpretated, that's a big difference particularly when you are publishing a article instead of just running off on a messageboard.

 

[Dinkeldog]

As I have said you would think the guy would of done a little research on the subject or even asked somebody involved, it's not hard to type x men into goggle (heck I had to just to keep up with this thread). A interpretation is fine but he stated it as what it was not what he interpretated, that's a big difference particularly when you are publishing a article instead of just running off on a messageboard.

Uh, no. When one writes an essay, one should state an unequivocal thesis statement, and then argue to back up that thesis. There is no requirement--in fact it's not a good idea--to come up with a wishy-washy, "Well it could be this, kind of sort of," statement; why bother to write anything. You don't like his argument, fine. Thinly veiled homophobic attitudes don't provide one bonus points for shouting down someone's thesis statement, though.

 

[Wayside]

So is Clairmont a nut or have we all been misunderstanding what the comics have been about?

No. You haven't been misunderstanding what the comics/movies are about. There's a classic essay titled The Intentional Fallacy some here ought to read. Wherever the inspiration for the story came from, it's not about homosexuality. Not even its authors can say otherwise. Dune wasn't about Muslims, either.

 

[Jemal]

"A story has many interpretations.. The writers interpretation, the experts interpretation, and the various readers interpretations. Nobody's interpretation is wrong because an interpretation is merely an opinion. Even the writer can't say for sure what the story is about."

-Orson Scott Card, paraphrased slightly to save space.