D&D General Thoughts about Purple Dragon Knights

[pawsplay]

All the old lore is still valid. The dragon stuff has only occurred in-universe in the last few years. I'm sure there are plenty of PDK classic still around.

If it only occurred in the last few years, that's kind of an "A guy named Otto Ocatvius ends up with eight arms? What are the odds?" kind of moment.

 

[TorgoTheWhite]

Well that party is just itching for an evil storm to ground them. Also, maybe a ballista that gets OA in ambush situations

 

[Greg K]

Hi @I'm A Banana ,
Sorry to bother you with something off topic, but a couple of members have contacted me after seeing my recommendations for your Complete Handbook Conversion and failing to access the Google files through links you provided on this site. They have also told me that they tried to message you without success.
I can still access the files as can a few other ENWorlders, but people trying for the first time seem to be unable to do so. Did you close access for new people or know why they can't access the files using their Google accounts and following the links?

Thanks.

A dragon done as a subclass feature is destined to be a milquetoast disappointment. The power budget just isn't there. Riding an actual dragon (not a wyrmling or a drake or a "draconic spirit") is viable, just not as subclass design. The D&D designers can't even design a satisfying subclass around riding a horse, a dragon is well beyond them.

Mounts are a problem for D&D in party just because they are not a good fit for a dungeon.

The designers just need to tell me how to account for an NPC ally's power in an encounter and let me take it from there. That CR 16 dragon, does it hit as hard as a level 16 character? Can it only take 1/3rd as many hits? Is it better in a LV 15 party or a LV 13 party or a LV 18 party?

You can design monsters that are more suited to be allies, but you can also just use "not suitable" monsters in ways that just take into account the dynamics they're going to bring.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That doesn't match my fantasy of a dragonrider.

Yeah, but you clearly haven't been reading Fourth Wing. which is clearly the target market for this.

as a friend

In the sense that your horse can be a friend. Anne McCaffery based her dragons on (slightly smarter) horses, and her modern imitators take their cue from that.

It's about the size

It's not much good if it can't fit in the dungeon. Large is the max it can be in order to function.

it's about the intelligence and ancient knowledge

So you want your much smarter DM controlled NPC companion to be the boss of you and remove player agency. I can't see that being popular.

it's about the breath weapon, it's about thematic magic,

So you do mean having an "I win" button.

No subclass has the power budget for that, especially at 3rd level.

True. Nor does an adventuring party have a power budget for that.

 

[Amphytrion]

The Purple Dragon Knight retooling was misguided, but I think the worst part is the implementation.

It’s misguided for all the reasons already given in the thread: that’s not the core fantasy of the Purple Dragon Knights or Cormyr, nor does it make much sense for Eldenser and his amethyst dragons to engage in this alliance. The overwriting of the old fantasy (Camelot) with a new fantasy (dragon rider) is also plainly unnecessary: Faerûn is certainly big enough for both. Wasn’t there a knight of Bahamut faction in one of the 3e books? The one that originated the dragonborn? Why not use that instead? The PDKs had a dedicated fanbase already, why upset them?

Setting the puzzling decision aside, the implementation is the true crime. There were some narrative consequences of this that could lead to interesting campaigns: for example, Eldenser is somewhat of an esoteric lorehoarder that doesn’t much care for mortals one way or another. He is also impersonating a weapon. What is he planning? Why has he bound his amethyst dragons like this? What is in it for him? What potential conflicts or adventures can arise from his secret agenda vs the knights’? Maybe a section on the DM-facing book could offer some support on how to incorporate this conflict which is central to one of the factions. They didn’t even need to define it: a couple of pages and a few random tables would a la Fizban’s go a long way.

The DM-facing book is also desperately lacking any guidance on how to incorporate the draconic allies in play. Do you never use them? How to use them in a way that doesn’t trivialize any threats? How to use them in a way that doesn’t make your players reliant on these majestic, powerful, magical creatures? Including this sort of DM advice should have been absolutely obvious, and I’m shocked it didn’t make it into the book.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If it only occurred in the last few years, that's kind of an "A guy named Otto Ocatvius ends up with eight arms? What are the odds?" kind of moment.

Which is fine, Spiderman, D&D, it's all just fantasy.

And of course, any writer will tell you that reality has much bigger coincidences than you can get away with in fiction writing.