Thoughts on a theoretical rules-light d20.

[tsadkiel]

The "Castles and Crusades" thread on the general discussion board got me thinking about what I'd like to see from a rules-light d20 variant, but rather than hijack that thread, I've started a new thread here.

Anyway, my thoughts:

Feats. Feats are good, and I'd hate to see them go away. However, feats do make character generation more complicated, and sometimes slow down combat. In my hypothetical rules-light d20, I'd focus on feats as being binary - if you have the feat, you can do X. If you don't, you can't. I would also cut many of the feats that permit characters to do things they should be able to do anyway - things like move, attack, and then move again.

In addition, I'd like to see clear feat paths - I'd like to simply give an NPC fighter the "wuxia" path, for instance, enabling him to make remarkable jumps, clamber up walls, balance on bamboo, etc.

As for skills, I'd like to see a user-defined spell list, rather than a set list of skills. A con-man would have "charm" or "bluff", while the evil lord's henchman would have "grovel." They could each use their skills to influence the people around them, but the flavor would be different. I'd make heavy use of opposed skill checks rather than having tables of set DCs.

I'd also handle skill points differently; each PC would have a set number o skills based on class, and bonus skills based on Int bonus. Skills would start at 4 and improve by one rank per level, so a fifth level fighter with 14 Int would have four skills, all at rank 8. Since skills are user-defined, there would be no cross-class or exclusive skills.

Anyway. Just my thoughts so far.

 

[RangerWickett]

Okay, what's complicated in d20?

Spells. There are hundreds of spells, with little consistency in design.

Combat. You get multiple attacks, all with different weapons and attack bonuses and damage dice.

Are skills complicated? No, not really. I think there should be more examples of what DCs to set for each skill, but the current number of skills is easily manageable. Also, skills don't usually slow down play, except for maybe Bluff and Tumble in combat. During other times, skills are fine.

What about feats? Well, admittedly I'd like to trim down a few feats, and get rid of all the 'double +2' skill feats. Just use skill focus. Other feats are complicated because they involve combat or magic, but if we revise the magic system and combat system a bit, we can probably get rid of these complicated feats?

Classes? Well, classes are certainly simpler than having a character-point-based build-yer-own class system, but some of the classes are complicated. I think a nice way to smooth things out would be to make some class abilities feats, and then have just three or four core classes, each with several Character Paths. Each character path would give you certain feats at certain times. So you'd have the Fighter class, but you could choose the Duelist Path, the Berserker Path, or the Cavalry Path (among others). Or, if you want a more advanced game, you can ignore the paths and just choose whatever you want.

Magic items? Hell yes they're complicated. Really, we should just have two types of magic items--charged items (scrolls, potions, wands) which cast spells directly one at a time; and wondrous items (belt of strength, cloak of flying) which give you persistent powers.

Sound good? So, what shall we do to fix these problems?

 

[RangerWickett]

Idea One - Magic.

Instead of spell levels (which can get confused with character level; some beginners wonder why their 3rd level wizard can't cast fireball), let's use MP, or Magic Points. It's a pretty simple system that is familiar to a lot of video gamers. For simplicity's sake, let's have only one magic class, the Mage. If you want to be more of a warrior-mage, just multiclass. (By the way, we'll get rid of multiclass restrictions).

We'll make a system similar to sorcerers, with MP and spells known determined by caster level. There'd be 300+ spells, and each spell would have an MP cost and maybe a few prerequisites. Spells would have flat effects, so a 5 MP fireball would deal 5d6 points of damage, not 1d6 per level. Sound good?

 

[Ferret]

If you did that it'd have to have some cap or some limit other wise you could have lots and lots of MP and nuke someone.

 

[tsadkiel]

We'll make a system similar to sorcerers, with MP and spells known determined by caster level. There'd be 300+ spells, and each spell would have an MP cost and maybe a few prerequisites. Spells would have flat effects, so a 5 MP fireball would deal 5d6 points of damage, not 1d6 per level. Sound good?

Instead of lots and lots of individual spells, I'd rather see a limited number of broadly applicable ones. Something more like sorcery schticks in Feng Shui, if you're at all familiar with them.

 

[RangerWickett]

Instead of lots and lots of individual spells, I'd rather see a limited number of broadly applicable ones. Something more like sorcery schticks in Feng Shui, if you're at all familiar with them.

Not familiar at all.

 

[netnomad]

I like the MP idea but 300+ spells is just plain ridicules. Spells should cost MP equal to the effect. If you think about it hundreds of spells out there do one thing: cause damage. That should be one spell that scales with the MP you put in it. The damage it cause determines the base MP as does the range and area effect. The type of damage (Cold, Fire, Magic, poison, disease, etc...) is another modifier.

Also if you have one magic using class you can have feats that can only be taken at level one that father define the type of magic. The sorcery feat can hive you more MP per day, the Faithful feat can give you bonus spells know and reduced armor restrictions, etc...


To simplify the class just make one: The adventurer. They start out with a talent and a feat and get a bonus talent ever other level. Each talent tree can fit a fantasy archtype.

-NetNomad

 

[tsadkiel]

Feng Shui magic - a character has access to a certain number of sorcery schticks at creation, and can buy more with experience. Each schtick gives access to a type of magical effect - Movement, for instance, lets you move things. The schtick write-up lists DCs for several of the more common effects (moving various weights telekinetically, for instance, or flying in the case of Movement) but these are not the only things you can do with the schtick, as long as it fits the theme.

The specific categories would differ when creating a heroic fantasy game (probably elemental categories, or you could even use the D&D schools of magic.)

In any case, Feng Shui magic-using characters are incredibly easy to run, especially for a GM. I can, and have, run combats using three or more sorcerers vs. the PCs, with the NPC opposition using creative and stunt-tastic tactics, without having to slow the game down and look anything up. That's the sort of thing I want froma rules light system - fast preperation and fast play.

 

[ichabod]

My advice would be to take an already simple game and modify it to fit the genre better. The beauty of simple games is that they are easier to modify. My choices would be either the already mentioned Feng Shui, or Over the Edge. The former for more cinematic, the latter for more realistic. Both are excellent simple systems, and I know from experience OtE works well for fantasy.

 

[Droogie]

Lesse.....a simplified 3e that anyone could learn....refine, refine, refine....

Four classes: Warrior, Mage, Priest, Rogue. Blend together with multiclassing to get the character you want. 4 skill points all, except the rogue who gets 8. No more class skills.

Skills are fine, but maybe we could lose one or two...disguise...rope use...

Two NPC classes: Aristocrat and Commoner. Between the 4 pc classes and these two npc classes, we've got most people in a quasi-medieval society covered.

Blend some of the features of the halfling and the gnome into a single small PC race. Why need two? I'd still call him a gnome, btw... most people have heard of gnomes; not everyone knows what a halfling is right away.

Feats: either trim them down greatly or eliminate them outright. Power attack? Make it a warrior option. You want to learn how to wear armor and wield better weapons? Take a level of warrior.

Spells: shrink the list. Broaden the uses. Ex: A "heal" spell could cure wounds, and could be level-dependent. "Cure" could work on disease, blindness, and poison. etc... I dig the magic points idea.

Maybe eliminate multiple attacks at high levels? Just tell the player he has two actions per turn. You can attack twice if you don't move. No need to designate move or standard actions. To keep magic balanced, more powerful spells like fireball would require two or more actions to cast.

Armor as DR...hmmm. Might be more math for the player, but it seems more intuitive. Don't have to worry about having two ACs rather than one.
No more AoOs, of course. There has to be a better, easier, faster way.

Thats all for now....