Thoughts on Bards?

[iwatt]

Well I've played a bard all the way up to lvl 13. And I got to say they're always useful, interesting, and fun but they sure aren't as powerful as some of the other classes.

I don't get this. Of course a bard isn't as good at charming as an enchantment based sorceror, or as good a light armored fighter as a rogue. (these are the two classe he, get's the most compared to). Probably a rogue/sorceror is also a better combatant than a bard in a duel. But bards are supposed to be support characters in combat. Unless you're confortable in that role, you shouldn't bother with them (go sorc/rogue). Also, unless the DM is going to let your non-combat abilities time to shine (diplomat, information gatherer, etc...) it probably isn't the best option to play one either.

 

[Voadam]

I'm playing a bard for the first time and going with the whole social skills and loremaster angle and roleplaying the bardic music as simply a different type of magic. Spellcasting is weak but there, same as the combat skills (light armor with no ASF, medium BAB, etc.) although they make better archers than melee combatants because of their low hp and AC for front line duty.

It is not a real power class unless social skills and knowledge are big deals in the campaign, then you have a serious spotlight opportunity.

 

[Tinner]

I've played my Gnome Bard up to level 17 now. I started at level one just on a lark. I thought I'd get bored with a bard and have him die in battle, but he's really grown on me.
My party's make up is very similar to yours.

Fighter/Occult Slayer
Fighter/Cleric
Sorceror/Dragon Disciple

That works out to about 2.5 fighter-types now that the DD has completed Dragon Disciple.
In a group like that, Bardic Music is HUGE.
I play my bard as a support unit. Sure, I don't have fireballs and such, but with Lingering Song I can "pre-buff" with one song, and switch to another. Inspire Greatness and Inspire Courage make a nice combo.

My spell selection has purposefully been geared towards helping the fighters do their job, and helping me avoid trouble. Spells like Tasa's Hideous Laughter, Heroism, Shatter, Dispel Magic, etc. have all saved our bacon many times over. And if I really need to dish out the damage, the Sorc/DD has made me a wand of fireballs. Use Magic Device is a class skill for a Bard, so if I need to blast, I can.

I also serve as the party's lock & trap man. Sure they're cross-class skills, but with a decent Int and Dex, I can handle them better than the others. I also spent some coin on a Chime of Opening which has come in handy.

I also am the default "face-man" for the team. I do the talking when we encounter NPC's. I have maxed ranks in Bluff and Diplomacy. I also augmented my Bluff Skill with a Choker of Eloquence, as well as the Charlatan, and Skill Focus: Bluff Feats. I can usually convince people that the sky is pink.

Since I've picked up all the Healing spells available to the bard, I'm the backup healer as well. My main goal is to keep enough healing spells to get the Cleric back on his feat after a fight if he's ever dropped. Once he's active again, he can handle the "heavy lifting".

With the Obscure Lore feat, and the synergy bonus for 5+ ranks in Knowledge: History, I'm also the only "detective" the team has. If your DM is willing to give you some leeway, Bardic Knowledge can be a huge advantage. But, you need to be constantly suggesting its use. Don't wait for the DM to call for a Bardic Knowledge check. Ask for one wenever you encouner something new. "Have I ever heard of this monster?" "Would I know any of its weaknesses?" etc. Access to Identify, and Legend Lore also helps.

Iproved Counterspell was a good investment as well. Since I have such a wide variety of spells, and can spontaneously cast, AND have a caster level equal to my bard level, I am a darn good counterspeller! And if that doesn't work, I have access to Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic, which solve a lot of problems.

As for avoiding the "rapier fop" image. I play a dreadlocked gnome who has introduced hip-hop to the world. I pack a light crossbow and a longspear. My gnome racial ability of Ghost sound even provides a backbeat while I perform. I see him as a kind of Capoeirista, using music to drive his fighting style, and urge on his comrades.

Hope this helps. I too was once a bard hater, but I have seen the light!

 

[Belen]

Hey, all...
New campaign starting, and it looks like I'm leaning toward playing a bard. Problem is, I just can't convince myself that this class would be 1)Useful, 2)Interesting or 3)FUN!
It does however seem to fit the group's needs. The group has 3 other PCs, as follows:
Half-Orc Barbarian
Human Druid
Halfling Outrider(eventually)

As we lack a rogue and an arcane caster, the bard semi-fills these roles, albeit weakly. I just don't see a whole lot of spellcasting power from bards to make me want to not just make a charismatic rogue. A simple Sorcerer may be even better, as he could act as the party face, and have some real spellcasting ability. The barbarian will take care of the locked doors and traps. The good part the bard does bring to the table is that with two and a half melee types, the bard song should be pretty effective. The problem is, I simply don't like the idea of a fruity guy prancing around with a rapier singing songs while hacking up orcs...

So someone out there who's played one (or with one), tell my why bards don't suck! Or should I just go Rogue? Sorcerer? Dwarven Fighter?

Thanks!
Gruns

See if you cannot play a Monte Cook Bard from The Book of Eldritch Might II. That version rocks!

 

[Shroomy]

My current PC is actually a multi-classed halfing bard/druid with nothing but options from the PHB and a couple of spells from the Players Guide to Faerun, which should be a terrible combination if the Dragon article I read it to be believed.

However, I really like the combination; not only is it a fun role-playing combo (think medieval, nature-loving hippie) but it makes my character more of a utility player. My PC is far from a tank, so most of my contributions in combat come from my wolf animal companion or summoned animals, but I've employed the bardic music (my character plays the drums) and some of my spells to some good effect. Bardic knowledge is also a good trait to have.

In the last major combat we had, with a group of ogres and lizardmen, I helped our dwarven cleric/fighter out by casting a spell to summon a wolf, flanking one of the ogres; had my trained wolf pull back our mortally wounded sorcerer; successfully performed a Heal check to stabilize her; had the wolf guard her body (he later attacked a lizardman and performed a successful trip), while I assisted a mortally wounded NPC (had to run 20 feet and then toss a potion of cure light wounds another 20 feet), cast a daze spell against one of the lizardmen, and threw a bunch of daggers at the remaining lizardmen (which actually hit my target, to my surprise, thank goodness for halfling throwing bonuses). This was all after winning a music and performance competition.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I think there are two very good roles a bard can play, but one depends on your DM and the type of game he runs, and the other could be frustrating if the other players don't show appriciation.

The first is the investigator. More than just the Face, who gets you a job, the one who finds out a job exists at all. the one who can find anything, or find anything out. High int and cha, and don't skimp on the wisdom. half elf is good, with bonuses to gather info and diplomacy. Max the gather info, sense motive, make sure to investthe 5 ranks in know: local for the bonus to gather info, and Know: history to up your bardic knowlege. Spells such as scry, locate object, clairvoyance are good, but don't neglect charm person and speak with animals. Consider multiclassing with ranger for tracking and spot and listen. And choose human or the most common race as your favored enemy, because those bonuses to sense motive and tracking are just as useful as the combat ones.

The problem with this build is that many DMs will simply make it worthless. the half orc barbarian will get just as much information by saying "I ask around" as your optimised info gathering machine will - enough to point you at the next fight, not enough to let you prepare a strategic advantage. Your bardic knowlege will never tell you anything the DM is saving for later, your tracking skill will always be foiled if it would allow you to be more proactive than the DM wants. You must find out if this is your DM before engaging in thise sort of build, because you will be setting the gaming table on fire by the end of the 5th session if you don't.

The second build, which I am toying with, is the ultimate support character. Obviously bardic music is a big part of this, and gives attack and damage bonuses that stack with almost everything. But there's more. Take cure spells, or better yet invest in wands. Use Flare, Fear, Rage, etc. There are some great spells in complete adventurer, one of which is a swift action to improve your insipre courage, and one to give all of your allies additional flanking bonuses and bonus damage when flanking. Take combat expertise, improved trip and improved disarm, and put that whip proficiency to good use. Knock foes down so your allies can hit them when they're prone, and take away their weapons as your followup attack. do it all from 15 feet away. And don't forget dispel magic and break enchantment at higher levels.

As for the poncy singing bard, just say no if you don't like it. My current bard uses perform oratory and gives rousing speeches, encouragement and tactical suggestions. Get a drum and pretend to be in the minutemen. do whatever you like.

 

[kolvar]

get The Enchiridion of Mystic Music and convince your gm to allow it. Still the best suplement on Bard (in my opinion, that is).

 

[VirgilCaine]

With a decent Dex and a bow, you can be a useful archer (specially with a Bow of Songs, once again from CAdv, which allows you to add Cha to attack and damage a few times per day).

As for "fruity guy prancing around with a rapier singing songs while hacking up orcs...", picture an archer, reciting epic poems about the great warriors from whom he descends (Perform [oratory]), all the while raining feathery doom upon his foes.

Exactly! People don't look past the whole singing bit.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Bards are definately a Role Playing Character. (if you are a power gamer, you need not apply)
However, they can be great characters to liven up a story, especially if the player is imaginative, I once played a half-orc bard that duel wielded two-light maces, why he used them as oversized drumsticks, beating on the ground, the wall and the occassional enemy in order to keep time to his tribal musical stylings. Was it effective, meh, was it cool, Oh Yeah! Was it memorable, ABSOULUTELY! Bards are the walking, living, breathing flavor text for a campaign. But because they are so statistically weak, you should make sure that they are in larger parties, they are great SUPPORT characters, they are lousey front line charactes.
Ex - if you have aparty with a fighter, cleric, mage and rogue a bard is a great number 5, however if you have a fighter, a ranger and a cleric, a bard cannot make up for the lack of magic a mage will bring and cannot make up for the lack of rogue skills either. You can figure out the various cominations and their weaknesses.
Basically, the bard falls in the same catagory as the sorcerer, they are great support members but have a hard time taking the place of another class, but can suppliment them quite nicely.
My two coppers, hope this helps, happy gaming!

 

[iwatt]

As for the poncy singing bard, just say no if you don't like it. My current bard uses perform oratory and gives rousing speeches, encouragement and tactical suggestions. Get a drum and pretend to be in the minutemen. do whatever you like.

The bard in the game i run used to be a poncy singing bard with a rapier. Straight from Waterdeep. He got caught up with an Uthgardt war band while evading some "false" accusations from his previous employer.

Take one long night with the Chieftain's daughter (those Uthgardt Hussies are shameless ), mix it up with one enraged future father in law (with the warband to back him up ), and you get the motivations to lose the silks and the knitting sticks and picj up fur and a Warhammer.