D&D 5E (2014) Thoughts on bonus action potions?

[lotuseater]

I don't really get the realism argument. Assuming a six second round, with lots of circling around and casting spells and such... how long does it really take to gulp down a potion? I know characters in movies do it in a pitched melee.

It seems the consensus is in favor of bonus action potions and against arguments of realism that suggest potions can't be drunk that fast. I may be in the minority, but I am on the side that thinks it's both unrealistic and breaks the game mechanics (in 5e. Haven't played 5.5e yet, so maybe it's balanced differently).

In terms of realism, I think the anti-realism argument has nothing to do with how long it takes to drink a potion. The gulping isn't the problem. It's the grabbing it from your pack or your pocket or wherever you have it stored and then gulping it down, all while still having a full action to wield a two handed weapon or play a lute or whatever it is you choose to do.

But my biggest issue is that it makes the healing function of clerics, bards, druids or whoever the party healer is much less valuable. Why should the cleric 'waste' his/her spell slots on a healing spell when anyone can use a healing potion as a bonus action? Same with potions of speed, fly, etc. You're taking actions that are key elements of spellcasters and not only saving them the need to waste a spell slot (always part of the advantage of a potion), but doing it even more efficiently and in some cases avoiding the need for concentrate.

That's the basic gist of my argument against. I totally get why players like it, because it means you have even more cool things you can do. Just not my preference.

 

[pawsplay]

It seems the consensus is in favor of bonus action potions and against arguments of realism that suggest potions can't be drunk that fast. I may be in the minority, but I am on the side that thinks it's both unrealistic and breaks the game mechanics (in 5e. Haven't played 5.5e yet, so maybe it's balanced differently).

In terms of realism, I think the anti-realism argument has nothing to do with how long it takes to drink a potion. The gulping isn't the problem. It's the grabbing it from your pack or your pocket or wherever you have it stored and then gulping it down, all while still having a full action to wield a two handed weapon or play a lute or whatever it is you choose to do.

But my biggest issue is that it makes the healing function of clerics, bards, druids or whoever the party healer is much less valuable. Why should the cleric 'waste' his/her spell slots on a healing spell when anyone can use a healing potion as a bonus action? Same with potions of speed, fly, etc. You're taking actions that are key elements of spellcasters and not only saving them the need to waste a spell slot (always part of the advantage of a potion), but doing it even more efficiently and in some cases avoiding the need for concentrate.

That's the basic gist of my argument against. I totally get why players like it, because it means you have even more cool things you can do. Just not my preference.

Even if it took, say, seven seconds, I just don't think it's something that would consume your entire concentration.

 

[Tessarael]

Regarding the length of a round, 12 second rounds would not be unreasonable, and likely not break anything except perhaps regarding movement. That's 5 rounds of 12 seconds in a minute, so spells with a minute of duration are still last throughout most combats. At least in my experience, many combats are done within 5 rounds - only if the DM throws more enemies at you within the same encounter on a later round does it take longer.

One possible issue with 12 second rounds is movement rate. Do we then double the movement rate or leave it as is? The advantage of doubling it is that there's more opportunity to flee combat, or to close to melee distance. The disadvantage of doubling it is that with 60' of standard movement rate in a round, in many cases opponents will be able to close to melee and attack in melee in the same range, rather than either needing to double-move or use ranged attacks for a round or so before closing. In that sense, it impacts spell range and missile weapon range too, as combats and ranges would need to be doubled to have the same situation as with a 6 second round.

 

[James Gasik]

So about potions replacing spellcasters- let's examine this more closely. I'll look at the arguments in no particular order.

1: why use healing spells if potions are more efficient?

But are they though? 50 gp to get an average of 7 hit points restored. That's worse than a Healing Word in 2024 and has an opportunity cost at low levels when coin really matters. It also assumes plentiful downtime or ready access to somewhere that has potions for sale- not something you can assume in the field. I'll touch more on availability later, but this amount of healing is a drop in the bucket. The better healing potions will eventually become better at healing than cure wounds, but come with even higher price tags.

Also, consider the difficulty of getting your healing spell to the target when they need it. It's far easier on the Cleric if everyone has their own way to heal in case of being locked down by foes, or unable to get to injured party members.

2: why cast buff spells if you can buy potions?

Now maybe someone else has seen this work out differently, but my experience has been that most buff spells are just not efficient enough. If it takes concentration, then generally a spellcaster has other, better uses for it. What's more efficient, casting Haste on the Fighter, or using Hypnotic Pattern or Sleet Storm to lock down multiple foes? Even Slow, which is less efficient (smaller potential pool of targets, repeated saves, nerfs, does not stop enemies in their tracks), is probably better than giving your martial one additional attack. The days when I could reliably get some kind of concentration buff for my melee character are long gone.

3: potions save spell slots.

Even if this is a problem, the same issue occurs with scrolls.

Next, you have the argument of availability. Do the players have the means to actually load up on tons of potions to make this a problem? Healing potions are in the PHB. Other potions are treated less as equipment and more like other items. Can you get the potions you need/want? If the party needs, say, 10 potions of water breathing to explore a sunken ruin, how easily can they acquire them?

Finally, there's the thing everyone keeps skimming over. Bonus actions in combat. Many characters have other things they want to use these for, and designers keep overloading the bonus action. A Fighter might have a bonus action attack from a Feat or subclass. Their Second Wind definitely requires a bonus action. A Rogue might need their bonus action for hiding, escaping, or aiming. A Barbarian needs their bonus action to rage. Monks need their bonus action for flurry of blows or dodging. Want to apply that Hex or Hunter's Mark? Activate that Smite spell? Even casters might find themselves in this situation, like a Sorcerer wanting to Quicken a spell or a Wizard needing to Misty Step out of danger. A Cleric might want to use Spiritual Weapon (though perhaps less often than they did in 2014).

Not every character has a use for their bonus action, but many do. If this is the case, using their bonus action for a potion is better than using their action, to be sure, but they might be loath to do so if it hinders them "doing the thing" they want their character to do.

And even if somehow potions step on casters...so what? Wouldn't that be true of many magic items? I have a +2 sword, who needs Magic Weapon? Boots of Speed, Broom of Flying, Robe of Eyes, Helm of Comprehending Languages, Ring of Invisibility- if it's not boosting numbers, it's granting someone an ability that otherwise requires a spell to use.

And that's not even getting into the fact that having a spellcaster shouldn't be required to play the game! Niche protection is mostly dead (or is supposed to be), isn't it? Why not let people get by without having a dedicated magic user in the party?

 

[Tessarael]

Spell casters with the 2024 version of Healing Word should indeed use that as a bonus action instead. A spell scroll of Healing Word can be used as a bonus action if it on your spell list, so yes that is cheaper too at 25 gp vs. 50 gp for potion of healing.

 

[billd91]

Spell casters with the 2024 version of Healing Word should indeed use that as a bonus action instead. A spell scroll of Healing Word can be used as a bonus action if it on your spell list, so yes that is cheaper too at 25 gp vs. 50 gp for potion of healing.

Which is great until your cleric is down, out of spell slots, or is tied up and busy with something else. But even if just looking at just potions of healing, there are any number of reasons quaffing that potion might be a preferred or even necessary thing to do.

Once you also add in other potions as eligible for drinking, it means a quick buff can happen without interfering with a PC's action. And, frankly, it has been my experience that it helps those consumables to be USED rather than languish in someone's equipment list forgotten. And, as DM, that's what I want. I want to be able to funnel short-term, consumable buffs to the group that will help when they feel they need it but not permanently become part of their equipment. It's easier for me to work with.

 

[Tessarael]

Yes. Well said. Similarly, my wild shaping Druid has been buying other PCs one or two healing items for use on me or others, as I won't have access to those healing items while wild-shaped.