D&D 5E Thoughts on Divorcing D&D From [EDIT: Medievalishness], Mechanically Speaking.

[Raiztt]

I’m pretty sure magic isn’t compatible with any laws of Physics I know.

The laws of physics are descriptions of reality, not an abstract entity that enforces reality. Non-locality and indeterminism weren't compatible with the known laws of physics in 1910 either, and yet.

 

[Reynard]

And maybe there are people who believe in Physics in your fantasy world.

You are making a bad argument that does not make any sense. By following your logic, boats shouldn't work in D&D.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Most of D&D is actually set in the 19th century just without guns - clothing, cities, ships, professions, governments, legal frameworks, social dynamics, understanding of natural rights, currency, etc - all has more to do with the 19th century than it does with the 13th century. The 19th century is really modern.

Your thread really doesn't surprise me. I've long held the opinion that people can't really imagine anything more than about 150 years into the past, which moves the most distant era people can imagine to like the 1870s and the literature of that period. So I'm not surprised that we're seeing more and more movies to take fantasy out of the 19th century where it has been for a while and move it into the 20th century. It's certainly happening with fantasy books and literature being written today, where more and more of the setting is the 1920s or 1930s just without guns. And so it's not really surprising that we'd also see more and more people going, "Why not just have guns as well?"

And I don't really think guns are a big problem in and of themselves. You can have them in D&D and as long as you confine them to like 18th century firearms, they don't impact play very much or not in the way you'd think. The real impact of guns is it makes a 1st level fighter some degree more of a threat to a 10th level fighter than he would otherwise be. The dynamics don't change very much otherwise. A team of 1st level fighters with late 20th century firearms can take on D&D 10th level characters on equal terms provided they aren't surprised, and are generally a lot more threatening. But that's only a small problem.

The bigger problem isn't guns but stable explosives and artillery. The existence of guns implies those two things, and that really causes a problem. It's a problem if the NPCs start using them, but it's even a bigger problem once the PC's realize "Dynamite!". Most modern setting heroic literature works very heavily on narrative protection and power of plot. Think how the Bond villains never just shoot Bond, or how in Dr. Who they largely do not deal with anything like realistic weaponry. Even traditional Westerns heavily depend on plot protection. Or just think about the incoherence of simulating the comic books in a game where you have to ignore the comic books own lore to get it to work. Everyone just gets protected by the author. That's what you have to figure out how to replicate to go modern, and really I think small arms like say pistols are a small matter compared to the real problems you'll have.

By that argument, modern RPGs (as in, RPGs set in something resembling the modern era) wouldn't really exist. And we know they do.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Are you saying being modern and having firearms are not two things that go together very, very often

Yes. I’m modern and I don’t have a firearm. No one I know has a firearm. I haven’t seen a firearm since I saw the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace around 5 years ago.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes. Like I said in the OP, the point is to still be playing D&D (adventures wise), just without the medieval-ish accouterments -- a modification I want backed up by some core mechanical changes.

Then I would recommend Valda's Spire of Secrets by Mage Hand Press. It has a full firearms system that would suit your specific needs as I understand them. Go to the company's website for more details, as well as free examples of much of their work on the blog tab. I was a fan of their firearm work until I realized that what they were trying to do (basically exactly what you are asking for) bugged me too much to keep it. Fortunately, by then Level Up had provided me with a better base for my homebrew.

 

[Chaltab]

I’m pretty sure magic isn’t compatible with any laws of Physics I know.

I mean that would simply make one definition of magic "anything that violates the laws of physics"

Alternatively you could say that physics still works, it just has different laws (Spelljammer).

 

[Reynard]

Yes. I’m modern and I don’t have a firearm. No one I know has a firearm. I haven’t seen a firearm since I saw the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace around 5 years ago.

What does this have to do with modern adventure fiction in the form of D&D play?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think there is quite a lot of fun to be had messing with the aesthetic. My players had fun with gnomes in trenchcoats and fedoras, and were more frightened by knife wielding clowns than any old orc.

I mean The Mummy cut the plot of the Boris Karloff movie and pasted it into a completely different genre.

No doubt, but I really prefer more teeth if I'm changing time periods personally, and for history to have more of a say when fantasy doesn't interfere.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You are making a bad argument that does not make any sense. By following your logic, boats shouldn't work in D&D.

Maybe there is a setting in which they don’t. The rules that operate in a setting are completely up to the DM to decide.

 

[Reynard]

Maybe there is a setting in which they don’t. The rules that operate in a setting are completely up to the DM to decide.

Ok, sure, and that might be interesting. I was under the impression you were making a more broadly applicable statement. Apologies if I misunderstood.