D&D General Playstyle vs Mechanics

[Aldarc]

I don't really know what this is supposed to be describing. It's like saying, what if a triangle is still a triangle, except that it has four sides.

I want my cake but I aIso want to eat it too.

 

[clearstream]

To me, the earth-normal part can be explained by scientific principles, or not. What I am pushing back against is the idea that it cannot be explained by science. Maybe D&D leans on the fantasy-side, but it doesn't have to; you can use science-with-exceptions instead, and generally that's what I want. What if magic is a fundamental force that allows the supernatural (like flying dragons and other breaches in the laws of physics) to exist, but otherwise science holds sway?

One way to manage it would be along the lines of theistic or spiritual 'dualistic' beliefs that accept scientific explanations whilst upholding that the miraculous can and does occur.

So whilst the Universe can be accurately described according to science, there are ineffable powers external to it that can intervene or be called upon to support the magical (which need not be conscious, e.g. dragons could be supported by a draconic force, which is not part of the Universe but interacts with it, without necessarily having any awareness of that force.)

Such belief systems have proved for many folk surprisingly tolerable and resilient, so ought to withstand use in fiction. I'm not saying that this is the current take in D&D worlds, only that it might serve as a recipe for having your cake and eating it too.

 

[pemerton]

One way to manage it would be along the lines of theistic or spiritual 'dualistic' beliefs that accept scientific explanations whilst upholding that the miraculous can and does occur.

So whilst the Universe can be accurately described according to science, there are ineffable powers external to it that can intervene or be called upon to support the nagical (which need not be conscious, e.g. dragons could be supported by a draconic force, which is not part of the Universe but interacts with it, without necessarily having any awareness of that force.)

Such belief systems have proved for many folk surprisingly tolerable and resilient, so ought to withstand use in fiction. I'm not saying that this is the current take in D&D worlds, only that it might serve as a recipe for having your cake and eating it too.

This sort of thing is, in my view, not tenable for D&D. D&D is not a world that conforms to contemporary scientific understanding but punctuated by the occasional miracle.

The skies of D&D are full of flying dragons, wyverns, chimeras, etc. Its lands teem with ankhegs, giant scorpions and the like. And there is not the least suggestion that each flap of a dragon's wing is an occasion for miraculous intervention to ensure that Bernoulli's equation does not describe the forces operating on that wing at that moment; that some miraculous agency ensures that those arthropods do not suffocate; etc.

 

[AlViking]

This sort of thing is, in my view, not tenable for D&D. D&D is not a world that conforms to contemporary scientific understanding but punctuated by the occasional miracle.

The skies of D&D are full of flying dragons, wyverns, chimeras, etc. Its lands teem with ankhegs, giant scorpions and the like. And there is not the least suggestion that each flap of a dragon's wing is an occasion for miraculous intervention to ensure that Bernoulli's equation does not describe the forces operating on that wing at that moment; that some miraculous agency ensures that those arthropods do not suffocate; etc.

Do you believe that because a movie has Godzilla that nothing else can work the same as the real world?

 

[tetrasodium]

One way to manage it would be along the lines of theistic or spiritual 'dualistic' beliefs that accept scientific explanations whilst upholding that the miraculous can and does occur.

So whilst the Universe can be accurately described according to science, there are ineffable powers external to it that can intervene or be called upon to support the magical (which need not be conscious, e.g. dragons could be supported by a draconic force, which is not part of the Universe but interacts with it, without necessarily having any awareness of that force.)

Such belief systems have proved for many folk surprisingly tolerable and resilient, so ought to withstand use in fiction. I'm not saying that this is the current take in D&D worlds, only that it might serve as a recipe for having your cake and eating it too.

Isn't that just omega point cosmology?

Spoiler: video on it

TL;DR of it though: You see it pretty often in cyberpunk/ahadowrun/etc type stuff & anything else that throws around terms like noosphere. It's both incredibly obscure and recognized without any understanding thanks to being used to describe dystopian future Internet before the Internet really existed

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't really know what this is supposed to be describing. It's like saying, what if a triangle is still a triangle, except that it has four sides.

It's describing the idea that magic and science can both be fundamental forces that describe and explain the universe. Magic just overrides science in some circumstances (but not in all).

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It's describing the idea that magic and science can both be fundamental forces that describe and explain the universe. Magic just overrides science in some circumstances (but not in all).

Certainly in a world where magic is real, that magic is part of the "physics" of that world, thus just as much "science" than everything else?

 

[Micah Sweet]

This sort of thing is, in my view, not tenable for D&D. D&D is not a world that conforms to contemporary scientific understanding but punctuated by the occasional miracle.

The skies of D&D are full of flying dragons, wyverns, chimeras, etc. Its lands teem with ankhegs, giant scorpions and the like. And there is not the least suggestion that each flap of a dragon's wing is an occasion for miraculous intervention to ensure that Bernoulli's equation does not describe the forces operating on that wing at that moment; that some miraculous agency ensures that those arthropods do not suffocate; etc.

Then we are at an impasse. @clearstream 's suggestion sounds perfectly reasonable as an explanation to me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Certainly in a world where magic is real, that magic is part of the "physics" of that world, thus just as much "science" than everything else?

Sure, but you can't deny that magic sometimes allows things science wouldn't. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[mamba]

Certainly in a world where magic is real, that magic is part of the "physics" of that world, thus just as much "science" than everything else?

so a scientist could (at least in theory) build machines to replicate any of the cleric and wizard spells?