D&D 5E (2014) Thoughts on spending gold ...

[Jefe Bergenstein]

The game lost something when they gave players the ability to purchase magical items to begin with. Used to be in the days of OD&D and AD&D, magic was something rare and valuable. You earned it.

Can we please dispel this myth? I was looking at running the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth the other day, and the amount of magical crap you get in that is anything but rare. The human/orc hippogriff poachers have splintmail +2, a crossbow of speed, a shield +1 and a few consumables.

And before we get to the standard grognard tall tale of how hard it was to find anything... no it wasnt. Half this crap is just lying on a body or in a monster nest. There's a longtooth +2 dagger guarded by a clay golem. Bracers AC 5 on a dead elf called out in boxed text. A couple of formians guard boots of levitation and cursed boots of dancing. Hey, there are TWO +2 battleaxes, just in case you need a spare! There's about 20-30 other permanent magic items sprinkled around. That's more than 5E suggests you award in an entire campaign, so maybe for the first time in D&D, magic might actually be rare again.

They talked a big game in the DMG about how rare magic items should be, but that's not how it played. RAW by the treasure tables and in published adventures, magic items were hardly "rare" in AD&D. There's this tired old revisionist idea that they walked uphill through 20 levels to catch a whiff of a potion of healing... I have no friggin idea what AD&D these guys played, but it sure as hell wasn't like the adventures TSR published. We had so much +1 garbage that our henchmen's henchmen were tired of it, yet the books tried to tell us they were such rare special snowflakes we should gush over each one, that wars were fought over a single +1 dart, and that no one could think of buying or selling them.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I don't have access to magic items and yet I still can't seem to have enough money! How can that happen!? :>

Really, there are so many things that you can do with gold in D&D. Build a shrine to you favorite gods in every village. Fund an orphanage. Invest in caravans and ships. Buy some gladiators. Bribe all the government officials in your town. Collect rare literary works and start a library. Start a world-class wine cellar. Hire an army to do your bidding. Raise exotic war mounts. Run a casino. Employ a network of public criers to spread your opinions. Erect great monuments in your honor. Sponsor the arts!

Really, it's up to you.

BTW, I've run into DMs who use these sorts of things as ways to embarrass players, and frankly that's a shame. DMs should be looking for ways to help their characters do epic stuff and not just trudge from one dungeon to the next.

 

[ProphetSword]

Can we please dispel this myth? I was looking at running the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth the other day, and the amount of magical crap you get in that is anything but rare. The human/orc hippogriff poachers have splintmail +2, a crossbow of speed, a shield +1 and a few consumables.

Most DMs I played with (about six of them) and myself (also a DM) in the early days didn't run modules. We created our own adventures. Always have. So, maybe those modules had tons of magic in them, but a lot of D&D games certainly didn't.

So, while there may be some truth to what you're saying, there's also truth to what I'm saying. I think we can both be right in this instance.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Most DMs I played with (about six of them) and myself (also a DM) in the early days didn't run modules. We created our own adventures. Always have. So, maybe those modules had tons of magic in them, but a lot of D&D games certainly didn't.

So, while there may be some truth to what you're saying, there's also truth to what I'm saying. I think we can both be right in this instance.

While there may of been a lot of available items available in early D&D, creating customized magic items to your personal specification, which picked up in 3E, was not something you saw.

 

[Derren]

Luxuries, land, soldiers, ships, great castles, airships and rulership.

Ah yes, all those things which are, at best, only passingly mentioned in the books which otherwise leave the DM completely alone in integrating them into the game which often results in them being superficial. No thanks. Such things should matter, some of them even being of so great importance that the whole campaign centers around them instead of them being handed out just so the PCs can spend their money.
And I also really dislike that for the most part the PCs will start with the best equipment the game has to offer, barring some "super rare" magic items.

 

[abirdcall]

It is nice to see people talking about how pointless wealth is in the game. It is given and taken away with a whim, plot hooks used or developed or not, who cares about land, taxes, stable fees, the cost of pint of ale?

The game lost something when they took purchasing magical items and individual prices away.

I have the exact opposite experience.

When gold is tied to magic items and magic items are merely a static part of level advancement then gold is meaningless.

Both magic items and gold now have meaning in my games where in 3.x they didn't.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

"The money is just an illusion, a whim of the DM." - me.

Yes I understand having ships, pegasi, businesses, hirelings, monasteries, and castles all change the narrative but since the DM is in charge of how much gold is given out, how much is taken away, how much things cost, and what things are available for purchase the amount of wealth is just an illusion.

If you want the party to have pegasi, they do, same with a castle.

The pegasi could be free or cost 100,000 gp each, the castle and land could cost them money every month or give them money from collected taxes, all is possible in the wide spectrum of DM fiat and they change to fit the DM's narrative and story he wants to tell.

The players know this, so don't give a damn if they find 1,000 gp or 100,000 gp.

In a world that follows the rules of 3rd editon for example, there were purchase limits on towns, expected wealth by level, and magic item purchase/construction prices. The players were empowered to make significant changes to the effectiveness of their characters with said wealth. Treasure just fueled your next shopping spree but the results meant something and was in the players hands how to spend it and what to spend it on.

I'm much happier in 5e's world personally.

 

[Blue]

What if what's important to them is magical tools that make them better at their chosen career?

In my opinion some characters spending on magic items and others not feeds right back into the problem. Challenges will be balanced against either characters with gear or without. If against the "with gear" characters, then everyone needs to spend and you can't contribute equally without spending, and gold has just been 100% negated - it gives no bonus, just keeps you on-level. Back to being a hidden part of character advancement.

On the other hand, if challenges are balanced against "without gear", then those with gear will find them easier, possibly even trivial in cases with things like bounded accuracy where a few more pluses will make a big difference.

For all that, that's my table. You aren't playing BadWrongFun for wanting a price chart. For me, I'm content without one because of how I view it leads expectations, but everyone's game has it's own feel and needs.

 

[Sailor Moon]

The characters' stat blocks may not increase but the gold does increase the characters' effectiveness through more control of the narrative. To use secondhander's and Lancelot's players as examples the ships and pegasi they now own give them more freedom and options for traveling. The ship captain and owner of the shipbuilding business will have more influence on the community and have hirelings at their disposal. The monk will wield considerable influence as the Grand Master for an entire order of monks. The money certainly increases the effectiveness of these characters, even if their stats remain the same.

How dare you use roleplaying in a roleplaying game!

 

[Sailor Moon]

Question?

What's actually stopping some of you from creating a magic item value chart and adding magic items shops to your 5th edition games?