D&D (2024) Thoughts on Stealth and D&D2024

[mamba]

A creature under the magical Illusion of the Invisibility Spell has the Invisible condition that "ends early immediately after the target makes an attack roll, deals damage, or casts a spell", while someone who has the Invisible condition from mundane hiding should be covered by common sense DM rulings. Doesn't seem thwt difficult in practice.

It also should not be difficult to come up with sensible rules for it that reflect the above

 

[mamba]

It seems so crystal clear to me, and I’m quite an idiot.

yeah, if you choose to ignore what the rules say, you can come up with a reasonable approach quite easily…

 

[mamba]

OK, just because I am "that guy"

yeah, that is why I changed it to transparent

 

[mamba]

Not really: the specific conditions of the Spell clearly outline how it works differently than thr more common sense Invisible condition.

yes there should, if I had a say in this, there would be

 

[Reynard]

I don't think you need a "condition" at all, but if you must have one, use "Hidden."

Hidden (condition): A hidden creature is out of line of sight of another creature. When a creature is Hidden to another creature, it gains advantage on attack rolls and the creature(s) it is hidden against have disadvantage when attacking it. A Hidden creature cannot be targeted by a spell or effect that requires sight by a creature that it is Hidden against..

Remove the nonsense "Invisible" condition and 90% of the already nonsense complaints go away.

 

[Parmandur]

yeah, that is why I changed it to transparent

The word transparent isn't particularly relevant: the "invisoble" condition is named in accordance with the correct usage of the word meaning "not visible".

 

[Parmandur]

yes there should, if I had a say in this, there would be

It works the same as any other Skill based activity, DM rulings and d20 tests assigned as make sense, same as it ever was.

 

[MerricB]

I don't think you need a "condition" at all, but if you must have one, use "Hidden."

Hidden (condition): A hidden creature is out of line of sight of another creature. When a creature is Hidden to another creature, it gains advantage on attack rolls and the creature(s) it is hidden against have disadvantage when attacking it. A Hidden creature cannot be targeted by a spell or effect that requires sight by a creature that it is Hidden against..

Remove the nonsense "Invisible" condition and 90% of the already nonsense complaints go away.

Nitpick time!

A character who has 3/4 cover is not out of line of sight of another creature (by definition).

For the 2024 rules, hidden is a bit weird. Potential rewrite:

Hidden (condition): A hidden creature cannot be currently seen by any enemies. When a creature is Hidden to another creature, it gains advantage on attack rolls and the creature(s) it is hidden against have disadvantage when attacking it. A Hidden creature cannot be targeted by a spell or effect that requires sight by a creature that it is Hidden against.

I added "any enemies" there to reflect the intent of the 2024 rule (which means that if even one enemy spots you, you're no longer hidden. Not that I like that rule! It leads to a lot of weirdness.

But you can put that back on the Hide action, to get it closer to your wording.

Hidden (condition): A hidden creature cannot be currently seen by another creature. When a creature is Hidden to another creature, it gains advantage on attack rolls and the creature(s) it is hidden against have disadvantage when attacking it. A Hidden creature cannot be targeted by a spell or effect that requires sight by a creature that it is Hidden against.

Still don't like it - wording still makes it seem like all other creatures. Probably have to change that first sentence!

 

[Charlaquin]

Specific beats general: the way that the Ibnvisibikity spell stops is written out specifically. It "ends early immediately after the target makes an attack roll, deals damage, or casts a spell", no more, no less. That implies nothing about the general rule.

Right, but if it doesn’t end when an enemy looks at you, neither must the invisible condition when granted by the Hide action, since it doesn’t say otherwise. Again, this is very obviously not intended, but it is what the rules literally say (or rather, don’t say).

 

[Charlaquin]

This discussion is making my head spin.

It seems so crystal clear to me, and I’m quite an idiot.

Common sense, contextual application of rulings. Each situation being different.

“Invisible” condition from mundane, non-magical hiding is not the same as magical invisibility to me, the DM. I can narrate and interpret the difference.

I’m utterly baffled that my fellow hobbyists, who are always much smarter than I am (not being sarcastic, I am fairly certain that I have a lower IQ than average) are so hung up on this.

You must understand no one (well, probably no one) is actually confused about how it’s supposed to work. It’s just that what the words in the book actually say is not how it’s obviously supposed to work.