D&D 5E Thoughts on this article about Black Culture & the D&D team dropping the ball?

[DeJoker]

No. It isn't.

Really what do you back that mere opinion up with? Perhaps the human nature aspect of what someone feels is okay in a game setting they tend to seem to feel is okay not in a game setting -- oh wait no that would fly in the face of your claim -- even though it is a psychological truth. The key here is it is not 100% true of everyone it is simply an observation documented by psychology aimed at the general populace with the understanding that there are exceptions to these psychological truths.

That exception in this context swallows your rule. AFAIK, the only truly intentionally racist RPG is RaHoWa, maybe F.A.T.A.L.- everything else we're discussing is more akin to sloppy research and insensitivity.

No it does not - I have run games set in time periods (aka more realistic settings) where racism was a big issue as such I always outline up front that it is going to be an issue but I tend to handle it in a more generic manner - applying it to all races by all races but making rolls for individual NPCs to see where they fall on the spectrum of racial/national racism. So it does not "swallow" my overall rule in anyway shape or form.

The term itself is not derogatory- it's akin to calling a kid a "tween". So, not buying your position here at all.

Okay well let us examine your claim.

Tween : short for Tweenager (a preteen or a young teenager)
Hauflin : an awkward (causing difficulty; hard to do or deal with) rustic (a person of plain and simple fashion) teenager, who is neither man nor boy, and so half of both
Hobbledehoy : a clumsy (awkward in movement or in handling things) or awkward youth​

Well it looks to me like the two words I described as being "rather" (which implies not 100% so -- but leaning in that direction heavily) derogatory are no where near as benign as tween, although in gamers term tween is definitely a derogatory term these days. So not sure if you are referring to the regular definition for tween or the gamers definition for tween .. which if I understand correctly refers to a character type someone likes to play as opposed to the player themselves.

We know where GG mined his dwarves from. The fact that there are cultures in which the same term or a false friend is a slur doesn't make his use in the game racist in any way.

In your opinion okay but I perfectly understand that rather blind point of view as it exists in the world where real life racism takes place and the same excuse is used. Oh wait I know it is different because it was not intentional or it is just a game. Really go ahead and continue with those rationalizations to make you feel morally correct.

The ONLY people who didn't think the terms I bet you're thinking of were racist or deneaning were the people using the terms to refer to those unlike themselves. You might want to talk to more members of "the race this thread was initially about" before you continue down this line of thought.

Interesting I did not state whom I thought those terms were thought to be acceptable by -- however your assumption is very interesting but seemingly completely incorrect -- further no I do not need to "talk with the members of" that race as I already have. Perhaps instead you should be more careful of your casual assumptions.

 

[Imaro]

.
Interesting I did not state whom I thought those terms were thought to be acceptable by -- however your assumption is very interesting but seemingly completely incorrect -- further no I do not need to "talk with the members of" that race as I already have. Perhaps instead you should be more careful of your casual assumptions.

So who do you think finds those terms acceptable?

 

[lkj]

You could, and if you did, most wouldn't notice. But it would be culturally anachronistic relative to the fantasized versions of cultures typically found in D&D (and other FRPGs, FWIW).

Fair enough. Probably the difference here is that I generally use a homebrew world and am a bit less tied to the tropes common in most fantasy settings. Don't get me wrong. I'm sure I use them (probably without thinking) but Nyambe would probably have fit right in anyway.

AD

 

[Alexemplar]

You could, and if you did, most wouldn't notice. But it would be culturally anachronistic relative to the fantasized versions of cultures typically found in D&D (and other FRPGs, FWIW).

It really wouldn't be. Not any more than dropping Zakara or Kara Tur would really muck up Forgotten Realms in a uniquely "culturally anachronistic" sense. Faerun, after all, features aesthetically Bronze age cultures alongside Medieval ones alongside Renaissance ones and more.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

"Halfling" arose for legal reasons. Gary Gygax wasn't in JRRT's league as a linguist, but he wasn't a slouch. According to some sources, "halfling" comes from similar sources as JRRT's "hobbit". GG warped the Scots word hauflin or the German surname "Helbing", meaning an awkward rustic teenager, who is neither man nor boy, and so half of both. Another word for halfling is hobbledehoy or hobby. (See what JRRT did there?)

Didn't Gygax just lift "halfling" from Tolkien too? It's in Lord of the Rings, as an exonym for "Hobbit". (Presumably derogatory, but not much is ever made of that in the course of the story IIRC -- everybody has bigger things to worry about.)

 

[DeJoker]

So who do you think finds those terms acceptable?

Well I thought it was fairly obvious but okay -- the general Caucasian (or European) population was whom I was referring to as they are the ones that used these terms so readily -- however they are also the population that has learned (or some of them anyway) that such terms are not acceptable to use.

 

[neobolts]

So I concur with the statement a ways back that states it is Lazy -- but then D&D has always been rather lazy or just surface glossing (or as subsequent versions came out mere copy/pasting) but this might have something to do with market value you get paid 100% for 50% of the work or you can get paid 100% for 95% of the work so it is cheaper to sell the 50% and call it a day.

You have a surprisingly negative opinion of D&D as a brand, especially considering it has had different content creators and even ownership over the years. I'm not so sure a 40 year body of work can be written off as "lazy". WotC has a number of talented current employees, plus a vast number of talented TSR/WotC alumni. Many of them are working at other brands that dominate the industry (Paizo and Monte Cook Games, to name two).

I still feel they fell short of the mark -- they being gamers they ought to have some ideas of how to improve things in the direction that they seemed to have wanted things to go so why was that not part of the post -- why did they choose to stop short of actually creating something with substance and thus value that could have propelled things in the direction they seem to feel things ought to be heading?

I know others have already brought this up, but this "fix it yourself" argument really falls short. Similarly, if I bought a car and voiced that I was dissatisfied with it, I wouldn't find it helpful to be told to design and/or build a better car. I'm a consumer, and not looking to be more than a consumer. While I understand that TRPGs are more hands on, we can't expect every DM to have the time or interest in producing original content custom tailored to their liking.

And beyond that, this isn't about an isolated product defect in this case. It's a discussion about a broad cultural issue and how that issue pertains to the product. The author's goal isn't to reshape a single product, it's to reshape our cultural attitudes and approaches to such products.

you post it to a forum and/or create a blog page. If its good and interesting word gets out and folks come and absorb what you have put forth into their campaigns and eventually maybe the D&D world decides they like what you put out there and either copy it in a way that is not considered plagiaristic (assuming you posted a copyright memo to the public posting to begin with) or they buy the rights to it

From even before the DMsGuild, and even before the dawn of the Open Gaming License, this holds true: Unless you are in the industry, discuss neither copyright law nor how D&D acquires material for publication, for this is the path of ruin. To paraphrase a GEICO ad, "That isn't how it works. That isn't how any of this works."

Okay it is basically common knowledge that the world has different races and that we refer to 4 of these races via derogatory terms (albeit some a bit arguable but why do it even it is only possible) those names being Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Half-Ling and Dwarf.

This is an interesting take on race in D&D. While these terms are human centric, (I'm guessing the terms are wildly different outside of Common), I have never portrayed any of these terms as derogatory in a D&D game. I have not seen any indication in official D&D material (that I recall since I started playing in 1990) that indicates that they are intended to be derogatory in universe. Humans are wary of half-orcs in the material, but that because of violence between the human and orc races.

Issues of race, gender, and sexuality have never been in-world barriers in my gameplay, and those in-game NPCs suggesting otherwise would be intended as bigots. My table style is somewhat progressive in the vein of Star Trek, because that's what I enjoy.

 

[Cornpuff]

Realize I'm coming to this thread super late, but still gave the article a read since as one of like, 2 black players I know, it seemed relevant to me. The impression I got from everyone quoted in the article is that ToA's representation is fine but colors in broad strokes under one banner of everything being "kind of Africa-y." It isn't malicious or harmful representation like saying they're all savages, but leaves a lot to be desired. Probably the biggest yikes in the bunch is that no one thought to kill the name "Mad Monkey Disease." I'm starting ToA in the next few weeks, and curious to see how it goes.

 

[neobolts]

So who do you think finds those terms acceptable?

Oh snap. Imaro put some points in trapmaking.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Probably the biggest yikes in the bunch is that no one thought to kill the name "Mad Monkey Disease."

How about "Acquired Schizoaffective Primate Syndrome?"