Thrallherd - Confusing much?

[wlmartin]

OK - some of these issues might just be down to how I am reading the Paragon Path description but if anyone can assist me in understanding, I would greatly appreciate it.

How does the Thrall attack?

It gets its own Standard Action to make an attack... (your Int + 2 vs AC : 1[W] + your Int) so why does it talk about using +3 or +2 modifiers and a D10 or D12 damage if using a weapon? - Is it saying that you can do the attack as a Int + 2 and do D12 or a Int +3 and do a D10??

It seems to suggest that you can make your attacks through the Thrall (using your AW/ENC/DAILY powers) but if that is the case, why does it go on to refer to the proficiency and damage that the Thrall would do in this case... since surely it would be the attack roll and damage you have as normal for the power?

Can anyone please explain what you do to make attacks with your Thrallherd and how they effect your standard actions?

 

[Ryujin]

If it uses a weapon then you make the attack, yourself, as if using the weapon (damage die and proficiency bonus). If it doesn't use a weapon then you make the attack at either +3/d12, or +2/d10 at your discretion, as set during a short rest. The bonus to the attack is based on your own attack values, with the appropriate weapon or unarmed bonus applied.

*EDIT* Additionally, it doesn't appear that the thrall has a standard action of its own. YOU spend a standard action, to command it to attack by using a standard action. At least that's how I read it.

 

[wlmartin]

<snip>

OK, from what I read... you Thrall doesn't take actions, you take actions through it.

So, if I need to take a Standard Action I can either do so as normal without the Thrall or make an attack through it.



The one thing that baffles me is :

"If the Thrall wields a melee weapon, it uses the weapons proficiency bonus of the weapon it has"

and

"You can issue the following special commands to your thrall"
"Standard Action : Melee Weapon; targets one creature; Intelligence +2 vs AC; 1[W] + Int Modifier"

So, lets assume when you want it to attack, you attack through it... so when you do so it seems you would do at Int + 2 vs AC. If this is the case then why does it matter if the Thrall has proficiency with the weapon in question since the ToHit value is determined by your Int + 2 and nothing else?

That seems to be the big confusion for me... it is talking about the Thrall getting its own proficiency and then completely ignores that when talking about how it attacks... is it suggesting that you get an extra +2/+3 to the attack on top of the Int + 2 it is showing you?


So how does this make sense?

 

[Rampant]

According to the rules, yes. The +2 bonus stacks with the prof bonus.

 

[wlmartin]

According to the rules, yes. The +2 bonus stacks with the prof bonus.

Really?

So as a Level 11 Psion, I could do Int(5) + 2 + 3(prof) (ie +10 attack bonus) through the Thrallherd?

Yes, with my own Orb Expertise, Crystal Orb + 3, my own attack bonus would be 15 at Level 11 so it isnt fantastic but it seems that without the book explaining that this is how it stacks, it seems it could be fudged in so many ways.

It would have been better to add a () that said (+Thrall Proficiency)

 

[Ryujin]

That was my assumption also; (INT Bonus) + 2 + (Prof) + (1/2 Level) to hit. Low damage, but hyper accurate.

 

[wlmartin]

That was my assumption also; (INT Bonus) + 2 + (Prof) + (1/2 Level) to hit. Low damage, but hyper accurate.

Then it gets even more confusing when it says "You can use a magical item effect from the Thralls weapon or yours" - what does it mean in that respect

Is it talking about the damage type (ie cold, necrotic etc)?
Or?

 

[Ryujin]

Then it gets even more confusing when it says "You can use a magical item effect from the Thralls weapon or yours" - what does it mean in that respect

Is it talking about the damage type (ie cold, necrotic etc)?
Or?

I don't see that. Could you be reading an uncorrected version? When it comes to magic items, this is all that I see:

Magic Items: The thrall can employ a single magic item. If the item has any powers, you use those powers using your own actions.

 

[wlmartin]

I don't see that. Could you be reading an uncorrected version? When it comes to magic items, this is all that I see:

Magic Items: The thrall can employ a single magic item. If the item has any powers, you use those powers using your own actions.

Umm...

What about this?

The thrall’s attack can benefit from the magical effect of either an implement you wield or a weapon the thrall wields, but not both.

 

[Nichwee]

This seems pretty basic to me.
If one of your attacks said "Int+2 vs AC" what would it mean?
It means exactly the same here (this is what the "you attack through the thrall" means).
So it is Your Int Mod + Half Your Level + 2 + proficiency bonus (as the Thrall does Weapon keyworded attacks) + enhancement bonus (+feat/item/etc bonuses).

The attacks the Thrall has use a weapon it is weilding or its natural weapons, which are assumed to be +3prof/1d10dam (like a bastard sword) or +2prof/1d12dam (like a greataxe).
So basically if you don't give it a specific weapon, assume it wields its natural weapons (and you choose whether you want your thrall to be accurate or damaging by picking the natural weapon that reflects what you want).

If you do give the Thrall a cool weapon it can use the properties and enhancement bonus on that weapon for the attack, or the propties and enhancement on your implement for the attack, but not both - you get to decide which you would prefer each attack.