Throwing People

[KarinsDad]

It's strange, but DND core does not appear to have Martial Throws.

However, last Sunday, my character was grappling with an opponent and I decided to "throw" the character 5 feet away into the edge of a Sleet Storm.

The DM ruled that I could only Move and Grapple and would have to move into that square as well.


But, it occurred to me that there might be a way to throw people when grappling.

Do a Bullrush. The criteria for a Bullrush is that you use a standard action. Any opponent that threatens you gets an Attack of Opportunity.

Since both you and your opponent "don’t threaten any squares while grappling", your opponent does not get an attack of opportunity against you.

When you are grappling, the only attack limitation is that your attack must be "with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks".

This could be ruled to include Trips, Bullrushes, etc.

So, you might be able to do a Bullrush, a Trip, etc. while grappling, just at -4 to your roll.

Thoughts?

 

[Caeleddin]

I'd allow it at -4 and use BR rules and congratulate the player for innovative thinking.

 

[Bront]

I like bullrush for throwing. Trip doesn't seem to exciting though because you'd likely go down yourself.

 

[Hypersmurf]

"Initiating a Bull Rush: First, you move into the defender’s space. Doing this provokes an attack of opportunity from each opponent that threatens you, including the defender."

1. If you're already in the defender's space, you can't move into it... does that disallow the maneuver entirely?

2. If not, does initating the bull rush still provoke from any other opponents who threaten?

"Bull Rush Results: If you beat the defender’s Strength check result, you push him back 5 feet."

3. Which way is 'back'?

"If you fail to beat the defender’s Strength check result, you move 5 feet straight back to where you were before you moved into his space. If that space is occupied, you fall prone in that space."

If you fail to beat his check, you move 5 feet straight back to where you were before you moved into his space. Again, this suggests that it's required that you actually entered his space from 5 feet away to initiate the maneuver. If not, how can you move five feet 'straight back' and end up where you started?

If all of these are somehow satisfied, it's still worth noting that if you fail the Str check, the space you started in is certainly occupied (by the guy you're grappling), so you would end up prone.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

If all of these are somehow satisfied, it's still worth noting that if you fail the Str check, the space you started in is certainly occupied (by the guy you're grappling), so you would end up prone.

Which I think is a fair result if you fail.

A -4 penalty and prone if you fail. It seems balanced, although not quite literally according to the rules.

It's unfortunate that they do not have something so obvious (Martial Throws for Monks) in core rules.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's unfortunate that they do not have something so obvious (Martial Throws for Monks) in core rules.

There was (eventually) a feat for it in Oriental Adventures, wasn't there?

-Hyp.

 

[NimrodvanHall]

We have a feat for ogres (or other large critters):

Exotic weapon: Gobblin
prerequisites: size large.
bonus you can trow goblins as a weapon, with the following rules.
Ranged weapon, 2 handed DMG 1d8 critt 20x2 rangeincrement 10 feet.
you may asle use goblins as a medium sized club
the goblin takes the same dmg as the target or 1d6 per range increment trown if the gobblin misses.
normal: a bleeding finger as the goblin bites you and a bagg of worms ruleswise.
notes: living goblins scream in terror when used as weapons

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

HR at home

My last game had a Kobold Monk who was often times thrown by the Dwarven Tank.. so often I ended up with some pretty reasonable rules for it.

THe steps, IIRC, include:
Enter targets square {AoO possible}
Touch attack roll
Strength check to determine distance thrown, the DC acts as a negative modifier and the result in feet is the distance the target goes, one quarter that for hieght.
{The Throwee can assist with a Jump check if its a freindly throw}
If you are trying to hit something, an attack roll. non-proficiency penalty applies, altho you can {and the Dwarf did} take Exotic Weapon: X, where X is the race or object you like to throw.
Damage based on the size of the throwee.

If anyone wants the full rules, I can post it later tonight

 

[Morrow]

There was (eventually) a feat for it in Oriental Adventures, wasn't there?

-Hyp.

Yep, it was called Great Throw. It was actually left out of OA, it was mentioned in a couple places but doesn't appear in the feats chapter. It is in the errata.


GREAT THROW [GENERAL]
You can throw your opponents to the ground, choosing where they land and dealing damage in the process.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dexterity 13+, Dodge, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes.
Benefit: When you make a successful unarmed trip attack against a creature no larger than your own size, you can choose where the creature lands, within the area you threaten. In addition, you deal your normal unarmed strike damage to the opponent. The creature’s movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity, no matter how far you move it. When you use this option, however, you cannot make a follow-up melee attack using the Improved Trip feat.

I'm not sure how "great" it really is. You can't throw anyone very far, only within your threatened area. It still looks like fun, though.

 

[Celebrim]

Throw really needs to be a combat manuever, and 'great throw' needs to be a feat that makes you better at it. Hmm..

I would suggest that throw be an option whenever you are not prone and grappling another creature. You have to have enough strength to lift the creature. If you can lift the creature and with an opposed grapple check, you can throw the creature anywhere within your reach + 5'/size class smaller than you of the target + 5'/+4 bonus to your strength. Thrown creatures take 1d6 damage for each full 10' that they are thrown just as if they fell and land prone. The tumble skill may reduce effective 'falling' distance as normal. If the creature succeeds in a DC 15 reflex save, this is non-lethal damage, otherwise it is lethal damage.

New Feats

Cleanfall
You have learned how to not land on your head.
Prerequisite: +2 base Reflex save
Benefit: You have a +4 bonus on Reflex saves to avoid damage when thrown and to catch ledges when falling or jumping.

Great Throw
You are a master at throwing techniques.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dexterity 13+, Dodge, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes.
Benefit: If a creature charges you, you can throw a creature you are not grappled with that round by making a successful trip attack. You may throw creatures that charge you even if you could not normally lift them. However, if you choose to throw a crature, you are not eligible for a followup attack from Improved Trip. Whenever you throw a creature, you made add your own unarmed strike damage to the throw as bonus damage in addition to whatever falling damage that the victim takes. You may choose whether this bonus damage is lethal or non-lethal.
Normal: You may only throw creatures you are grappled with. You may never throw creatures that you cannot lift. When you throw a creature they take only falling damage, and you are not eligible to add your unarmed strike damage to the throw.

Size is No Obstacle
You are a master at using the proper leverage.
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dexterity 13+, Dodge, Great Throw, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, BAB +9
For the purpose of throws, you are treated as being one size class larger than you are, and have a +4 circumstance bonus to effective Strength. This will reduce the distance you can be thrown, increase the distance you can throw other targets, and increase the maximum size of object you may throw.

Toss Foe
You can throw your enemies to great effect
Prerequisite: Size Large, STR 19+
Benefit: If you throw a creature of a size class smaller than yourself, they are not eligible for a reflex save to avoid lethal damage.