Throwing Weapons - Stupid Question

[erealspiller84]

Can you throw different weapon types in one attack/full attack action?

My DM and I are having an argument. My character is a level 3 Swashbuckler/2 Fighter/1 Master thrower who throws daggers. I stated to him that he would like to get Alchemists Fire to sometimes throw on his lowest attack roll (since it is a touch attack and would be easier to hit). He was thinking that it would be impossible because "the thrower would already be in dagger-throwing mode".

He is saying that it would be too difficult because the weapons are thrown differently (spinning dagger, hurling flask). And my argument that jugglers can juggle multiple different items at a time doesn't convince him.

He started to make a house rule that if I put ranks in a skill called "Juggling" that I would be able to... and when I told him that Slight of Hand covers juggling... he said that I would just get a -4 penalty to the attack roll...

Can anyone recommend a solid rule or something else to say to convince him otherwise...

 

[Dandu]

You have Quick Draw, right?

 

[erealspiller84]

Yes, Master Thrower receives Quick Draw at first level.

 

[Dandu]

These are all the relevant quotes I can pull off of the SRD.

Thrown Weapons

Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

Throw Splash Weapon

A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don’t take the -4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target.
You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5. However, if you target a grid intersection, creatures in all adjacent squares are dealt the splash damage, and the direct hit damage is not dealt to any creature. (You can’t target a grid intersection occupied by a creature, such as a Large or larger creature; in this case, you’re aiming at the creature.)
If you miss the target (whether aiming at a creature or a grid intersection), roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the throw, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the grid intersection or target creature. Then, count a number of squares in the indicated direction equal to the range increment of the throw.
After you determine where the weapon landed, it deals splash damage to all creatures in adjacent squares.

Quick Draw [General]

Prerequisite

Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit

You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. You can draw a hidden weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action.
A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).

Basically, there's nothing differentiating thrown splash weapons from the other thrown weapons. Mechanically, I do not believe there is anything against it unless I have overlooked something.

Your DM wants to rule against it based on "realism", but given that you're already throwing knives faster than any human alive and likely traveling with people who can alter the fabric of reality with a thought...

 

[radmod]

Unfortunately, your DM is both wrong and right.

As Dandu has pointed out, if you have two different types of weapons and Quck Draw, you may indeed throw both types of weapons. (or even if you had two weapon fighting and drew them as a move action)

However, it is a full round action (p. 141 PHB) to prepare a splash weapon. That would mean you could not prepare a splash weapon in the same round that you throw weapons.

Now if you have already prepared the fire, then you might get the argument from the DM that it is not technically a "thrown weapon" (since it does not appear in the list Dandu provided) so you could not throw it in the same round. I, personally, think that's a bit silly.

 

[aboyd]

Radmod, I believe that the "full round action" for splash weapons was only intended to apply to items that required a wick or some kind of setup. Like oil. Here is something I wrote on the forum for my own game:

The Player's Handbook lists "prepare to throw a splash weapon" as a full-round action. However, the listing for oil on page 127 of the Player's Handbook says, "use the rules for alchemist's fire, except that it takes a full-round action to prepare a flask with a fuse." That implies that alchemist's fire does not need the full round action to prepare. Thus, I'm ruling that acid flasks, smokesticks, holy water, tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, and thunderstones can all be thrown without preparation at full BAB.

Note that you may still need a move action to retrieve a flask if it's not in ready reach.

 

[radmod]

Aboyd, quite frankly I've always thought it a bit hinky. I'll have to look into it thanks!
Especially since I do the same as you for all the others: holy water, etc. Essentially, anything that you have to prepare. Of course, I often don't allow alchemists' fire so I'm a little behind on it.

 

[irdeggman]

The flask needs to be in an easy to get to location in order to do this (it can't be in a backpack for example).

But other than that there is no rule against chanign the type of weapon being thrown when attacking.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Can you throw different weapon types in one attack/full attack action?

My DM and I are having an argument. My character is a level 3 Swashbuckler/2 Fighter/1 Master thrower who throws daggers. I stated to him that he would like to get Alchemists Fire to sometimes throw on his lowest attack roll (since it is a touch attack and would be easier to hit). He was thinking that it would be impossible because "the thrower would already be in dagger-throwing mode".

He is saying that it would be too difficult because the weapons are thrown differently (spinning dagger, hurling flask).

According to the 3.5 FAQ...

There’s nothing inherent in the full attack action that requires all the attacks to be made as the same kind of attack or with the same kind of weapon.​

A character with a base attack bonus of +6 or better holding a longsword, for example, could make a melee attack with the longsword (using his full base attack bonus), drop the longsword (a free action), use Quick Draw to draw a dagger (another free action), then throw the dagger (using his base attack bonus –5). If the character had both hands free (for instance, if he didn’t carry a light or heavy shield in his off hand), he could even use Quick Draw to draw a bow (free action), draw and nock an arrow (free action) and then shoot the bow (using his base attack bonus –5).​

Given that it's okay to swing a longsword and throw a dagger and/or fire an arrow as part of the same full attack sequence, your DM's "the thrower would already be in dagger-throwing mode" argument breaks down pretty completely.

 

[Persiflage]

Basically, your DM's argument boils down to "I just don't like idea very much". There's nothing in the rules to support the notion that there's such a thing as a "dagger-throwing mode": so long as all the things you want to throw are accessible so you don't need to take a move action to get to them, there's no reason why you can't just hurl anything you can lay your hands on.

If you have a Handy Haversack and Quick Draw, you can fill it with an eclectic mix of whatever-the-hell-you-want, and your weapon of choice for your current attack will always be on top. One of my more recent characters was a halfling who threw stuff - lots of stuff - to incredible effect. If my DM had started babbling nonsense about dagger-throwing modes and whatnot, scorn would have (rightfully) ensued