Tiefling and half-orc should not be in the PHB

[thedungeondelver]

Now...half-orcs and half-elves came straight outta Tolkien, yo, so where did these other things start popping up? I mean, what edition. BITD (ugh...cannot believe I think of 2001/2002 as "back in the day," but there we are...10 years gone as the song says) we used to make fun of the 3e propensity for half [#IMPROBABLE_CREATURE_MIX]es, but did it roll in earlier than that, with 2e?

 

[avin]

I honestly think all half-races should be an optional template found in the DMG. How many "vagabonds who don't fit into society" races do we actually need?

"We?"

Well, for people who play the same tolkienesque games always "half-races" are not necessary.

But there are people playing Planescape, Spelljammer, Darksun... people who would change gnomes and halflings for Aasimar and Tieflings in a heartbeat.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I prefer these races as "core":

Humans, Elves, Half-Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, and Halflings.

I wouldn't mind seeing these races in the core book:

Tieflings, Aasimar (sp?), Warforged, Goliaths, Dragonborn, Drow, and Goblins.

I want to ditch Half-Orcs and go with regular Orcs.

If we go main race, broken down into subraces, then I like these
Humans (half-elf, half-orc, tieflings, aasimar, genasi, goliaths)
Elves (Drow, Wood, High, whatever else)
Dwarves (Hill, Mountain, Dark)
Small Folk (Kender, Gnomes, Halflings)
Savage Races (Orcs, Goblins, Minataurs, etc)
Exotic Races (The Giths, Dragonborn, Warforged)

 

[avin]

Exotic Races (The Giths, Dragonborn, Warforged)

That won't make sense in a Planar campaign. Giths are as common as elves in Sigil.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

While that is true, I would argue most games aren't planar games.

I was mainly talking from a core perspective.

Truth be told, I don't see a way to make everyone happy.

For instance, I prefer Eberron if I'm playing in a campaign setting (and not a homebrew setting) and I'm already pretty sure things like Warforged aren't going to be included as anything but an exotic choice, even though in Eberron they would at least be considered "uncommon" at worse.

 

[steeldragons]

That won't make sense in a Planar campaign. Giths are as common as elves in Sigil.

This was really necessary?

This means what to the cost of tea in China? C'mon.

Is 5e defaulting to a "Planar campaign" and noone told me?

 

[Tallifer]

I explained how easy it is to refluff any race into any other already, but someone objected that such is different from trying to remove a race form a setting which is incompatible with the dungeon master's vision of the world.

I disagree: it is as easy as pie. Just take the disliked race, say Genasi in the Forgotten realms, and call them something else. Perhaps a subculture of dwarves, elves or humans which made some kind of pact with the elemental forces. Likewise for Tieflings: they can just be degenerate humans or gnomes who worship evil gods and devils, but they do need to have horns or tails. They can wear distinctive traditional clothes and have many other distinctive cultural features, but the weird racial stuff is disposable. All feats or powers for said race can be refluffed as feats specific to that particular culture and region.

 

[hanez]

I explained how easy it is to refluff any race into any other already, but someone objected that such is different from trying to remove a race form a setting which is incompatible with the dungeon master's vision of the world.

I disagree: it is as easy as pie. Just take the disliked race, say Genasi in the Forgotten realms, and call them something else. Perhaps a subculture of dwarves, elves or humans which made some kind of pact with the elemental forces. Likewise for Tieflings: they can just be degenerate humans or gnomes who worship evil gods and devils, but they do need to have horns or tails. They can wear distinctive traditional clothes and have many other distinctive cultural features, but the weird racial stuff is disposable. All feats or powers for said race can be refluffed as feats specific to that particular culture and region.

Fluffing is fine for players who want to do it. From a DMs perspective I like to have a core rulebook I dont have to keep ammending to run a basic game of D&D. Dragonborn and tieflings dont make it into my basic game of D&D by a longshot.

 

[Aeolius]

I read the first 3 pages and last 3 pages of the thread. Apologies if I missed something golden in pages 4-9.

My current campaign is humans only, even though some other races exist. As a DM, writing the game world and such, I am entitled to as much fun as everyone else.

Absolutely! My current campaign is set beneath the surface of the sea. As you might expect, core races are not permitted. PCs must have a natural swim speed and the ability to breathe underwater without the use of magic. Thus I am a proponent of the "Savage Species" route - any intelligent being should be a playable option (Apologies to Gurgalurk, my gray ooze illusionist).

Fine, but why not full-blown orcs instead of half-orcs? That "serious backstory implied" is just stupid. With neutral orc tribes in the monster manual, it would be not that hard to justify.

You know, I like this idea. In 1e, half-orcs could be of human, goblin, or hobgoblin stock. So use orc as the playable base and expand half-orcs in the MM to include variable parentage.

Human, elf, orc, halfling, and dwarf seem like a varied choice for a start. Yes, I like gnomes as much as the next person, but I think the initial choices should be simplified for new players. Half-elves, half-orcs, and gnomes, along with most intelligent creatures in the MM, should be presented with playability in mind. After all, sea elves, merfolk, and locathah are the "core races" in my undersea game.

 

[avin]

This was really necessary?

This means what to the cost of tea in China? C'mon.

Is 5e defaulting to a "Planar campaign" and noone told me?

I don't play "Tolkien", I don't play Eberron, I don't play Forgotten Realms, I don't play Greyhawk and I don't play POL. There's nothing wrong playing these worlds, they're just not my cup of tea...

I do play homebrews, Dark Sun and Planescape.

"Default campaign" is something I would remove from DDN so, yes, this was really necessary. Why one should bow to what other people claim "common"?

I still have to see with my own eyes why a Halfling is more popular than a Dragonborn or a Tiefling...