Tinkering with spell schools

[Repentant Lurker]

For an upcoming FR game I am thinking of changing conjuration spells that do direct damage (orb of blah etc) into evocation school spells. Can anybody see a problem with this? I'm hoping this will slow down a Lord of Cheese player that I have in the party who is hell bent on making the most broken spellcaster possible.








Dming lvl 16+ is be hurtin my brain hut.

 

[DogBackward]

How would this help reduce the power? Now you'll have all of the spells in one school, very convenient for your uber-evoker. And the school disctinctions are mainly there for flavor. Conjuration calls something into being, then you chuck it at the otehr guy. Evocation just calls it into being right where the other guy happens to be at the time. Sorta.

I don't see where it will cause any real problems, though, and some school changes make sense. But I feel I should warn you, it would make your mage more powerful, not less, to have all the damaging spells in one convenient school.

 

[Nifft]

Many people simply ignore the various Orb spells. Allowing them is a house rule, after all.

If you do decide to allow them, moving them to Evocation opens to the door for SR, and that would help push them towards balance.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DreamChaser]

Yeah...it sounds like the problem in question is the no SR clause of Conjuration (creation) spells (which the orb spells fall into).

It has always struck me as odd that the orb spells do not allow SR but fireball (where the "magical origin" is clearly defined as the bead that the caster releases but the flames are not described as inherently magical) does allow SR.

Of course, I suspect that all of this is more of a flaw in the SR system than the school system. When you create a defense that is all or nothing, it is only natural that there will need to be spells that circumvent it or casters end up feeling useless at higher levels (where everything has SR).

DC

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

The flaw in which school is what has a great deal to do with defining how magic "works". You also have several "sacred cows" involved in the system - that just HAVE to break the general rules. Personally, I don't like any spell that deals damage, allows no save, and doesn't require an attack roll of some kind from the caster - and yet: Magic Missile.

As far as "circumventing SR" - there are methods.

 

[Nifft]

Just as a note -- I rather like that some spells ignore SR (like acid arrow). These spells should be weaker in general (again, like acid arrow -- compare vs. scorching ray).

I rather like the angle that Psionics has taken -- acid ignores SR, but all other energy types are interchangeable at casting time. The Warlock Invocation (vitriolic blast) follows the same pattern.

But I do think we need some higher level [acid] spells, which are Conjuration (Creation) and do bypass SR. They should just be weaker (in terms of raw damage and secondary effects) than Evocation spells of the same level IMHO.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Griffith Dragonlake]

Conjuration calls something into being, then you chuck it at the otehr guy. Evocation just calls it into being right where the other guy happens to be at the time. Sorta.

Personally, I think that Conjuration (Creation) really is Evocation. Creating something out of nothing fits the description of evoking something out of thin air a whole lot more than Calling or Summoning. I suspect WotC put a bunch of direct damage spells into Conjuration (Creation) as a way of reducing the number of evocation specialists and making conjuration specialisation more attractive.

Magical sense is c.1300, for “constraining by spell” a demon to do one's bidding.

IMC, I have banned Evocation and Conjuration (Creation) from the Wizard and Bard list because I believe that creating something out of nothing is really a manifestation of personal magical power which Sorcerers and Psionics posess and which Clerics and Druids channel. Conversely, I have banned Conjuration (Calling & Summoning) from the Sorcerer (and Psionic) list as I see those as specialised rituals rather than personal powers. Demons and their ilk that can gate in their fellows do so as wizards rather than sorcerers.

 

[DogBackward]

Wow, way to lock the "Blaster Sorceror" archetype in stone. Although I can see your reasoning, I still think it's an incredibly bad idea. Now, any sorceror who doesn't go the blaster-mage route will get pounded by his allies, and he won't be able to afford taking any utility spells, because he'll have to make up for not having blaster support from a wizard ally.

And I happen to like the customizable nature of the sorceror. A summoner sorceror is a great idea, I think. The idea is that sorcerors manipulate magic directly, rather than having to go by rote. The wizard and sorceror are using the same energies, they're just using them differently.

Of course, it's your campaign, do what you want. Bu tI still think it's a bad idea.