Tiny Creatures...Help!

[MysticDoom]

Was just wondering if the 5 foot step rule ( no attacks of oppertunity) applies to tiny or smaller creatures if they move into an opponents square if they are going to attack...


Thanks

 

[Fieari]

In a related question that just came to mind, do such incredibly small critters really get 5' steps? Since such steps are supposed to represent the natural movement during battle, slight shifts, that sort of thing, diminutive and fine creatures esspecially seem odd for being able to shift an entire 5' for free...

Come to think of it though, I doubt there's anything in the rules about it. The designers seem quite focused on medium (and sometimes small or large) creatures when it comes to rules.

 

[Tonguez]

Normally when a tiny creature moves into a square to attack it does attract and AoO

however if it withdraws using a 5-foot step then

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity.

I'd imagine for a tiny creature this represents it scurrying away as fast as possible

 

[PrinceZane]

I'd rule no 5' step for them. Since it specifically states they have to step into an opps square to hit that draws an AoO, I would say giving them the free 5' would void the rule.

They could maybe charge into it from 5' away since it would be "more than 5'" for them (proportionately speaking). I dunno about that, houserule maybe?

 

[Hypersmurf]

You can't make a 5' step if your speed is 5 or less. A Toad, for example, must use a move action to move 5', since its speed is 5. A cat, on the other hand, can 5' step just fine.

Entering an opponent's square provokes an AoO; it's not clear whether this is an AoO for movement or an AoO for a distracting act. Another example is the AoO provoked by moving into an opponent's square when grappling:

Step 4: Maintain Grapple. To maintain the grapple for later rounds, you must move into the target’s space. (This movement is free and doesn’t count as part of your movement in the round.) Moving, as normal, provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents, but not from your target.

If you have to move five feet to maintain the grapple, and have made no other movement in the round, is it counted as a 5' step? The AoO is provoked "as normal" for "moving"... and provoking "as normal" for moving only five feet in a round is "not at all".

However, I'd be inclined to rule that the AoO is still provoked in both cases.

-Hyp.

 

[Drowbane]

In a related question that just came to mind, do such incredibly small critters really get 5' steps? Since such steps are supposed to represent the natural movement during battle, slight shifts, that sort of thing, diminutive and fine creatures esspecially seem odd for being able to shift an entire 5' for free...

Come to think of it though, I doubt there's anything in the rules about it. The designers seem quite focused on medium (and sometimes small or large) creatures when it comes to rules.

doesn't it seem equally odd that Colossal Dragons or Giants still only move 5' with a "5ft step"?

 

[FEADIN]

Was just wondering if the 5 foot step rule ( no attacks of oppertunity) applies to tiny or smaller creatures if they move into an opponents square if they are going to attack...


Thanks

Here is the rule:
There is no "5'step" condition as you can see.

BIG AND LITTLE CREATURES IN COMBAT
Creatures smaller than Small or larger than Medium have special rules relating to position.
Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy.

 

[daBooj]

What about the tiny trying to stay with the medium baddie. The tiny in it's action moved into the space of the medium and attacked. The medium is a wimp and on it's turn backed up it's five footer and did it's attack or whatnot. On it's next turn, the tiny is no longer in the same square as the medium and must move back into the medium's square.

In real world fight, the tiny would be moving as best as it could with the medium as it backed away. If the five foot step is to simulate the movement of a real world fight, I don't think there should be any problem for the tiny moving with or away from the larger creature.

yeah, they're small shuffle steps. tiny shuffle steps for a tiny creature. But the tiny creature is somewhere within the 5 foot space of the medium, backing out will have to bring him to an adjacent square. Moving with the retreating medium is a bit harder to imagine, but you just need to see it as a real world fight. Yeah, the medium started moving first and the tiny just keeps up with it.

I think it works. These are just adjustment steps.

(btw, this should aply to larger creatures as well, but I might bend the rules some if two colossal creatures were fighting each other. Only makes sense that they would be able to make larger adjustments if needed. Course, they may also simply make 5 foot or less adjustments.)

 

[FEADIN]

As you can know if you fight in melee it's when you're closing or backing that's the more dangerous and when you are tiny you have to come very close to strike, if you want to follow you have to anticipate, not to be surprised by the move of the ennemi, in d&d the name is:Ready.
To make what you said the tiny creature has to take a "ready" action to follow the big guy.
Once in the square the tiny says:If the big guy moves I strike him and follow, since you can only ready a standard action if the big guys move more than 5' you will be unable to follow more than this after you strike.

 

[Balok the Strange]

Sorry, I seem to have made an error and responded on the wrong thread somehow. Oops.