(title deleted)

[Edena_of_Neith]

Nah. I'm saying that because they said it, and I was very surprised when they did.
30th level characters are commonplace now.
I suppose 50th to 100th level characters eventually will be commonplace as well.

I suppose.

Things are changing. The old TSR, with it's comic book code, would never have condoned the Book of Vile Darkness.
Things are changing. Such is the reality of life.

 

[Murrdox]

Just remember, you can only get SO powerful.

Jesus never fails his saving throw.

 

[maddman75]

For the record, in the original realms (1e gray box) Mystra was a neutral deity. In the Time of Troubles, Mystra was killed and replaced by the mortal Midnight. She kept the name to make the transition easier.

In the sequels - Crucible IIRC - she ran into problems trying to implement her morals on the users of magic. Not her place to do so.

And if there's one thing I've learned, you never, ever ask Edena about his character.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Have a sense of humor, guys.

Edena had a BAB of + 20. Real good in 2nd Edition, nothing to write home about in 3rd Edition.
Edena had the equivalent of a Fortitude save of + 14, a Will save of + 16, and a Reflex save of about + 13. Nice in 2nd Edition, not so effective in 3rd Edition. (He would never have made his save against a dragon's breath weapon in 3rd Edition!)
Edena had 250 hit points. Very nice, but in 3rd Edition many monsters can easily beat that. Epic Monsters, especially.
Edena had 23 spells of levels 1 through 7. But when Edena threw a spell, it was just a spell. He could not metamagic it. He could not Enlarge, Silent, Still, Maximize, Double, Chain, or otherwise improve the spell.
He most certainly did not have spell slots above 7th level with which to improve his spells (Larloch, who is only 35th level in 3rd Edition, has spell slots up to 23rd level.)

A REAL 121st level 3RD EDITION character, would kill Edena in a single round.
Edena, probably would not even get a chance to strike a blow (he might not even get a chance to blink, before he was erased from existence.)

 

[kreynolds]

Have a sense of humor, guys.

Not meant as a dig, but more about "things that make ya' go hmmm", perhaps you have yet to post anything funny.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Have a sense of humor, guys.

Oh! You mean it's a joke?

I take it all back, then.

-Hyp.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Incidentally, that is why I said the Book of Vile Darkness was the real reason you left Larloch alone.
Larloch, if he is nothing else, is reclusive. He does not like visitors.
He does not like visitors so much, that he just might punish the land where they came from, as well as them, for disturbing him.

The last thing any nation in the Forgotten Realms would want is an Enlarged, Maximized, Doubled (and God knows what else, for Larloch has 14 extra spell slot levels to work with) Apocalypse from the Sky spell thrown on them.
The same could be said of Acererak and Oerth.
Or Fistandantilus and Krynn.
Or Rajak and Athas.

Some things are Truly Meant To Be Left Alone.
Otherwise, it will be Apocalypse Now, and not Later.

 

[Janos Antero]

For as I said before, the last thing the Forgotten Realms needs (or Krynn, or Oerth) is a large number of insane and evil wizards and/or clerics running around looking for an artifact to corrupt so they can all create their own personal Anaurochs.
The Forgotten Realms and other worlds need Champions to stand up against this kind of threat.

I still say Mystra is neutral. If Vile Magic exists, then I cannot believe Mystra is Good.
For Mystra is the conscious aspect of magic, and if there is Vile Magic, that consciousness would not be good. Not, at least, in my opinion.

I almost feel like I'm putting my foot in my mouth by speaking here, but a few key points:

Evil Wizards already HAVE done this in the FR setting, more than once. See Myth Drannor, Hellgate Keep, and the Anauroch which was caused by Phaerimm, who are natural evil wizards. They currently ARE doing this as well, and have never quit looking for evil artifacts to corrupt to use toward these ends.

The Chosen of Mystra also are not in place to stop this type of evil specifically. They exist as Chosen to prevent the abusive use of magic. Although the Chosen have become politically motivated on the basis of individual beliefs, the group as it has been stated to exist is to stop others like Karsus, who endangered the future of all magic.

Next up, I'm not going to dig it up at the moment, but the logic behind Mystra still allowing evil spellcasters to have access to magic has been stated before in many places. Vile magic is magic, and as long as it doesn't endanger magic as a whole, it is allowed by Mystra. Evil spells fall into the same catagory.

The only type of magic Mystra has ever limited or cared to limit was 12th+ level spells in older editions. (Mystra has no direct ability to limit Shadow Weave magic, although her followers attempt to limit followers of the Shadow Weave).

She doesn't care about the level of destructive magic unleashed in the realms. While it certainly may be more logical that she is neutral, Greenwood has had funky logic for wanting her the way she is for some time, and has consistently held to that logic.

Then again, if you'll take a character to 121 level using a homebrew exp system that encourages such, why not just make her neutral, be done with it. End of story, no debate needed, it's a house rule just like the levelling system.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to be stubborn here.
Mystra is not good.
If she was, then Vile Magic wouldn't exist.

Vile Magic is Magic, no?
And Magic, is sentient in FR, no?
And that sentience, is Mystra, no?

So, a part of Mystra's sentience is based on something so foul and awful that to even attempt the least comprehension of it is damning for mortals!

Now, of course, Angelic Magic (or whatever they will call it) is also sentient, and expresses itself in Mystra.

If I had a character who could cast both Vile spells and cast Angelic spells (most DMs wouldn't allow that ...) then my character would be ... what?
Neutral?
Evil?
Good?
Impossible to define?

 

[Janos Antero]

You're being stubborn about a null point though.

Greenwood has stated his logic, she IS that way in Core FR. Like or hate his reasons, he has them, and no amount of arguing about it here will change his reasons.

If you want to know why, feel free to track it down. If you disagree, good! But that doesn't do anything.

If you are trying to debate IF it is unrealistic she is neutral good, then I don't think you're going to get anyone to disagree with you. But none the less she still is going to be.

If you don't like it, then change it in your campaign, acting as if there is something to debate there is silly. It's really that simple.