To build a Living Greyhawk elven archer

[Gaiden]

Check out Wildrunner. If you scream you get a +6 Dex (+3 hit!) and +2 Str (more strength is always good).

Make sure you have at least a 12 Con. My friend's rule for Living characters is you spend 6 points on Con, then build your PC. More than 12 is also fine. You claim you dont need hit points? HA. EVERYONE needs more hit points. Even those with Mettle & Evasion. It may seem trivial at low levels, but once you get to high levels every point counts.

Be a Wood Elf. +2 Str & +2 Dex is good. Start with a 16 Dex and Str. I've seen 20 Str Composite Long Bows... Not sure if 22 Str ones are out there. If you are not a Wood Elf, start with a 14 Str (add a +6 stat item and you got a 20 which you need for damage).

I recommend Fighter 4, but consider starting Ranger for Skills, Track, and Flavor.

What region are you in?

Good luck and let us know what you do! =)

Rydia

I don't think I know about Wild Runner. Are you being sarcastic?

I think enough people are emphasizing the 12 con that I may reduce my dex for it.

See above about the woodelf, stat boosting items, and starting as a ranger.

 

[Gaiden]

For stats, I'd go with Str 16, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8

The 14 wisdom really isn't necessary--you'll be getting a periapt of wisdom anyway if you want bonus spells past 8th level, so just get one slightly earlier and/or get a better one later. The 17 dex will be useful as soon as you hit level 4.

On the fighter/ranger question, my view is that fighter is the way to go if you want to deal damage. The challenge of a pure ranger archery is that when you're not fighting your favored enemy, you're not getting much damage bonus beyond enhancement, prayer, strength, and bardsong and 3/4 times you won't have prayer or bardsong. Weapon specialization (and especially greater weapon specialization) is what will put your damage over the top to where you're always doing at least some damage--even against skeletons, elementals, etc. (Usually the bane of archers).

I went for the 14 wis for two reasons: bonuses to skill checks and bonus spells. I would still like to get a periapt of wisdom and hopefully get bonus 3rd and 4th level spells. I see your point about dex 17 being useful at level 4 but to me it comes down to having a 10 con and 17 dex or 12 and 16 respectively. I tend to agree with you about weapon specialization. Favored enemy just can't be counted on - this is why I probably would not take improved favored enemy even if it did benefit all enemies because it is simply too limiting.

 

[Endur]

Favored Enemies for Geoff:
Giants primary, secondary: Humans, Orcs, Dragons, Fey

The big advantage of pure Ranger is the extra skill points (6 points per level vs. 2 points per level) and extra special abilties. Weapon specailization is going to be overkill for mooks and against big bad guys, it won't be necessary as the whole party is going to be pounding on big bad guys.

Really important skills: Spot, Listen, Survival, Sense Motive (all of these need max skill points per level). These are the skills that WILL save your life.

If you like scouting, you also need: Hide, Move Silently. Hide and Move Silently become AWESOME at higher ranger levels (10+).

That's 6 skill points per level, meaning you need an int of at least 10. To dabble in other skills, means you need an int of 12 (and you probably will want to dabble in other skills).

Hit points for higher con: A lot of archers do the five foot shuffle. i.e. enemies are in melee with the archer, the archer steps back five feet and does a full attack with arrows on the enemy. Expect your archer to be in base to base contact with enemies in most melee combats. Battle maps are small and with lots of bad guys in a combat, some will make it to the archers.

 

[Gaiden]

Favored Enemies for Geoff:
Giants primary, secondary: Humans, Orcs, Dragons, Fey

The big advantage of pure Ranger is the extra skill points (6 points per level vs. 2 points per level) and extra special abilties. Weapon specailization is going to be overkill for mooks and against big bad guys, it won't be necessary as the whole party is going to be pounding on big bad guys.

Really important skills: Spot, Listen, Survival, Sense Motive (all of these need max skill points per level). These are the skills that WILL save your life.

If you like scouting, you also need: Hide, Move Silently. Hide and Move Silently become AWESOME at higher ranger levels (10+).

That's 6 skill points per level, meaning you need an int of at least 10. To dabble in other skills, means you need an int of 12 (and you probably will want to dabble in other skills).

Hit points for higher con: A lot of archers do the five foot shuffle. i.e. enemies are in melee with the archer, the archer steps back five feet and does a full attack with arrows on the enemy. Expect your archer to be in base to base contact with enemies in most melee combats. Battle maps are small and with lots of bad guys in a combat, some will make it to the archers.

Did you include those favored enemies because they are what I listed or did I just get lucky with my selections?

Regarding the 5' shuffle, I have never understood why if I am scouting I can't engineer the combat so that we start out much further away. If I have the archer scouting and he does spot the enemy - even if he is really close - why would I engage in combat. I'd probably be scouting a 100 yards or so in front of the group with my animal companion trained to warn me if they are attacked (or something like that) and vice a versa and come back to the group to report what is going on. Then we plan out our battle - surround with our melee people keyed to choke points and are ranged people a few move actions away from combat.

If I am surprised and don't see the enemies - well, that sucks . In this case, I switch to melee. (I am against the whole 5' step back deal because any experienced DM will immediately have the foes step forward and sunder the bow.

 

[TheEvil]

I have been playing LG in Raleigh, NC (Gran March) since last year and let me tell you: combat almost always happens in a way that makes scouting and sniping unfeasible.
People don't usually bother with with much hide skill because the box text for the adventure assumes the PCs walk into whatever the situation is as though they were idiots. I have yet to see an ambush that accounted for the fairly common scent ability of familiars and animal companions. I generally mention it to the GM at the start of the game that my familiar has scent, can talk and is reasonably intelligent. I often have to remind them once things start happening.

That said, if you really want to snipe from a distance, look at Craigtop Archer from Races of Stone. Long range archery like you would not believe.

 

[Gog]

Ok, this is news to me - perhaps I need to go over the LGCS again. I was under the impression that upon gaining treasure from each adventure that after said adventure and the equipment was distributed, you could spend your available gold on whatever you wanted with the only limitation being the standard no equipment costing more than half your net worth for your level. I recall the LGCS explicitly stating that treasure was designed to be open ended so that you could gain a large amount of gold if the items that were given out were not suited to yoru character. In this way you could tailor your character's equipment.

That sounds like the old RUP's, the current LGCS 4.2 dosen't say anything like that. At the end of every adventure every item is sold for half price and the gold is given out to the PC's and not even all the gold as there is a GP cap at each APL, there is no keeping of items from a module. Every PC gets gold to buy what they have access to only.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Did you include those favored enemies because they are what I listed or did I just get lucky with my selections?

Not being from Geoff (I'm in the Theocracy of the Pale in LG), I can't say for certain, but from everything I hear, Geoff has a lot of giants and a lot of fey.

Regarding the 5' shuffle, I have never understood why if I am scouting I can't engineer the combat so that we start out much further away. If I have the archer scouting and he does spot the enemy - even if he is really close - why would I engage in combat. I'd probably be scouting a 100 yards or so in front of the group with my animal companion trained to warn me if they are attacked (or something like that) and vice a versa and come back to the group to report what is going on. Then we plan out our battle - surround with our melee people keyed to choke points and are ranged people a few move actions away from combat.

It's always nice to plan things that way, but it often doesn't work out. There are creatures with better spot and hide checks than you, creatures with blindsight, blindsense, tremorsense, etc, and then there are judges who just read the box text without thinking of how the party's actions might change the described situations. (Sometimes there are even judges who don't read the box text and just assume that it's auto-surprise or something lame like that--when I was observing the playtest of my last meta-regional, watching the judge do that made me change around my text so that the spot check was much easier to see). However, I would think that the most common reason for combat to happen at close quarters is simply the limitations of terrain. Obviously, in a dungeon, most distances will be short. A 50x50 room is a big room. In a forest, visibility is also pretty short so even if you know where the enemy is, odds are good that, at 100 yards you won't be able to see or engage them. And fights will often break out after a challenge or negotiations, in which case, you're obviously within speaking distance. Tower shields also enable their wielders to take full cover and avoid all damage from arrows while they advance. Through a combination of all those factors, you're unlikely to face a lot of enemies who can just be killed by archery at 300 feet.

If I am surprised and don't see the enemies - well, that sucks . In this case, I switch to melee. (I am against the whole 5' step back deal because any experienced DM will immediately have the foes step forward and sunder the bow.

Now, that's the kind of archer I won't call a wussy girly-man Best of luck with the giants.

 

[Testament]

Geoff? There's a common joke apparently for Geoff, involving a tall person putting their hand up as far as they can, and saying "You must be shorter than this to live". Take Giants as your favoured enemy, with humans as your second, its always a safe bet.

I've noticed a marked decrease in piano deployed ambushes this year, which is a good thing, especially after Year 2 and 3. Scouting is still not a good idea though, since the average fight in LG is 2 ELs above the APL, so you REALLY don't want to run the risk of something bad happening and getting reduced to a greasy smear.

Of course, your experience may vary, I'm over in the Iuz's Border States, Perrenland to be precise. These Metaregionals are absolute killers!

 

[Endur]

Favored enemies: you got lucky. Giants are the big enemies in Geoff. Humans are a constant obsctacle in various core modules. Fey and Orcs are second Tier enemies in Geoff. Dragons although very rare, are just plain nasty, so every ranger should take a +2 favored enemy against dragons.

While your ranged combat scouting makes sense, that is not how the game is played. You might get lucky and have one long distance combat encounter in every five or so games. All other combats are going to be resolved at distances of 60' or less. Partially, this is because most battle maps are only 60' in size. Partially this has to do with visibility. It also has to do with the fact that most other people in the party and most monsters will have abilities with a range of 60', so this is the range that is the most "fun" for the group.

Bow sunder attempts happen from time to time, but they are rare. First, the monsters are usually trying to kill you and take your items. Second, its easier for the GM to roll to hit you than to try and remember the sunder rules. Third, a lot of monsters are unintelligent (undead, animals, etc.). Fourth, experienced Geoff archers carry more than one longbow.

Did you include those favored enemies because they are what I listed or did I just get lucky with my selections?

Regarding the 5' shuffle, I have never understood why if I am scouting I can't engineer the combat so that we start out much further away.

 

[Gaiden]

I have been playing LG in Raleigh, NC (Gran March) since last year and let me tell you: combat almost always happens in a way that makes scouting and sniping unfeasible.
People don't usually bother with with much hide skill because the box text for the adventure assumes the PCs walk into whatever the situation is as though they were idiots. I have yet to see an ambush that accounted for the fairly common scent ability of familiars and animal companions. I generally mention it to the GM at the start of the game that my familiar has scent, can talk and is reasonably intelligent. I often have to remind them once things start happening.

That said, if you really want to snipe from a distance, look at Craigtop Archer from Races of Stone. Long range archery like you would not believe.

I never play my character like an idiot: if I am scouting I'll take full advantage of 100% cover/concealment to limit checks to Listen vs. M.S. rolls (to statistically limit the chance of botching a roll); if I have any inkling that there is a creature with blindsight I will always use cover to hide rather than concealment (terrain permitting); if I am I am in any sort of wooded area, I'd always move in the trees (as opposed to on the ground) to eliminate the possibility of tremorsense, etc (assuming I have the ranger spell that grants the benefits of the brachiation feat).

Moreover, knowing ahead of time that DM's would do this I will be sure to point out what I am doing and why (reminding them of the pertinent rule) - like you admonish with scent.

Thanks for the suggestion regarding the cragtop archer - I have to admit, I really didn't even give the book consideration as I thought it mostly pertained to dwarves, gnomes and races not allowable in LG. The class looks interesting. They have a decent number of skill ranks which is really the key. I still think the ranger is better though because of the spell access. Again, with the advent of Races of the Wild and Complete Adventurer, the Archer Ranger spell selection is phenominal.