To Mike Mearls: Melee training and the Battlemind

[ppaladin123]

[MENTION=697]mearls[/MENTION]

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Powers, Implements, Feats ...)

I understand why you are making the change to melee training and I support it overall, however I don't want you to overlook the poor battlemind.

Defenders really need a decent melee basic attack to offer real threat on opportunity attacks. A defender who can't seriously punish enemies for walking away from him or casting ranged/area attacks next to him, has lost a good chunk of his bite.

Many of us (on the boards and in gaming groups I participate in)view the lack of any feature allowing a battlemind to use constitution with opportunity attacks/melee basic attacks as an oversight. We've had to take melee training(constitution) as our first feat....look at the character ops boards and you'll see that that is invariably the first feat taken. Now we'll be stuck with a weak opportunity attack, forced into taking all the daily powers that offer constitution-based dailies for an encounter, or play half-elves with eldritch strike.

Please consider errata granting the battlemind this simple ability. If for some reason WotC thinks this would be overpowered, please at least offer an option like the swordmage's intelligent blade master.

Thanks for listening.

p.s. While you are at it, have mercy on the poor constitution-secondary shaman as well....the armor situation is pretty dire.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

My sons Battlemind has worked just fine and has not taken the Melee Training feat and has no desire to do so.

We also avoid the Charop boards.

 

[Dice4Hire]

My sons Battlemind has worked just fine and has not taken the Melee Training feat and has no desire to do so.

We also avoid the Charop boards.

That is also a wise idea. Playable is a great pleasant road to a beautiful destination, while superbly optimized is a road scattered with mines that circles back on itself. .

 

[nnms]

I actually think it's a really elegant solution-- half damage bonus but full attack bonus.

It's also the simplest house rule in the world for non-essentials classes.

Also, is there an at-will in Psionic Power that battleminds can use as a melee basic?

 

[ppaladin123]

That is also a wise idea. Playable is a great pleasant road to a beautiful destination, while superbly optimized is a road scattered with mines that circles back on itself. .

I enjoy optimization. Different strokes for different folks.

I'm just pointing out that the battlemind is in an odd spot because of this ruling. The other defenders all have options to give themselves a very good opportunity attack out of the box (fighter, paladin, warden) or with a special feat (swordmage) if they so choose (you are free not to optimize if you don't care to).

Since the battlemind's mark punishment (mind spike) doesn't work at range like the paladin and swordmage, and he can't easily stop movement (fighter) or create difficult terrain (warden), opportunity attack damage +any added effects one can add to it becomes an important part of the battlemind's tool kit.

 

[ppaladin123]

I actually think it's a really elegant solution-- half damage bonus but full attack bonus.

It's also the simplest house rule in the world for non-essentials classes.

Also, is there an at-will in Psionic Power that battleminds can use as a melee basic?

No there isn't. Like I said, I like the ruling too. It just creates a problem for one class (and only one class): the battlemind.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

There are a lot of battlemind powers that offer

Augment 1: usable as opportunity attack.

Also you have a different punishing option.
The new melee training is nice. I wan´t t see if half damage is realy half damage, or half damage strength + half damage attribute x.

edit: and it is still far more superior than weapon finesse of 3.x which gave you nothing at all to damage. I had errated it this way. Melee training was too good.

 

[ppaladin123]

There are a lot of battlemind powers that offer

Augment 1: usable as opportunity attack.

Also you have a different punishing option.
The new melee training is nice. I wan´t t see if half damage is realy half damage, or half damage strength + half damage attribute x.

These do help but at heroic tier you really don't have enough points to use this consistently (and at particularly low levels it means you have to sacrifice your "encounter" power(s) to make an opportunity attack).

I suppose this whole issue is very DM dependent..how often do they attempt to violate your mark. In my groups, certain enemies will (depending on attitude toward risk, intelligence, etc.) ignore marks and try to bypass the defender. If they get away with it often, they will keep going for the fragile types in the back. If your DM respects your marks regardless of their actual bite, then this change won't really matter much. Still, I'd like to see the option there for those of us have different play styles.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

These do help but at heroic tier you really don't have enough points to use this consistently (and at particularly low levels it means you have to sacrifice your "encounter" power(s) to make an opportunity attack).

I suppose this whole issue is very DM dependent..how often do they attempt to violate your mark. In my groups, certain enemies will (depending on attitude toward risk, intelligence, etc.) ignore marks and try to bypass the defender. If they get away with it often, they will keep going for the fragile types in the back. If your DM respects your marks regardless of their actual bite, then this change won't really matter much. Still, I'd like to see the option there for those of us have different play styles.

We are speaking about 2 points of damage in heroic tier. 2 points for some attacks. definitively not broken if it wasn´t broken before. Still better than the battlemind whi wasted its opportunity attack to follow his enemy.

Did i say we speak about just 2 points of damage? (Ok, 3 if your battlemind had constitution 20, but then he deserves this loss)

Yes I do violate marks. Battleminds should, like knights stay near those who he like to defend. Not defend from far away.

 

[Shin Okada]

I don't know if I like new melee training.

Having full attack roll bonus but only half damage bonus is .... too weak. MT was never be "must have" in my games but a useful one. I guess this update will change this feat into a useful one into a worthless one.

If they think giving good melee basic attack with one feat is too much, they should also update Power of Skill feat. That one is more powerful.

In one game I am attending, there is an avenger of Erathis who took Melee Training. In another game I am DMing, another avenger just took Power of Skill feat because she worship Ioun, who has skill domain.

I am afraid that this change encourages to choose deity just for having good domain feat, not for player's taste. This problem is not new, but not something should be made more significant.