Tomb Of Levistus: very cool yet terrible, or did I miss something?

[Ancalagon]

Hello

So Xanathar's guide to everything has a very interesting invocation, where, in reaction to some kind of powerful attack, you entomb yourself in ice to resist the damage (you get a ton of temporary HP but are frozen in place etc etc).

Now this is a very cool idea! The basic principle is neat, there is some history behind it (see http://dungeonsdragons.wikia.com/wiki/Levistus ), it reminds me of one of the greatest demon of them all (Mei)... a lot of good things.

However, the execution... never mind the somewhat strange idea that having ice armor makes you *vulnerable* to fire (wouldn't it *protect* you?!?). Or the not exactly clear wording on how long those temporary HP last. That's not my issue.

My issue is the action economy. You are entombed in ice until the end of your next turn... so you lose your turn! So it's not like you avoid the damage via the ice, and then on your turn you get to do something to deal with the source of damage (run away? cast a spell at it? etc etc). Instead you protect yourself and... skip your turn, leaving whatever is the danger source free to act again on its turn - but now you don't have you cool defensive trick anymore.

I'll concede that there are some edge cases where you take a ton of damage once (fall off a cliff, a trap etc) but it's pretty rare no? Am I missing something?

Thanks!

 

[neogod22]

Hello

So Xanathar's guide to everything has a very interesting invocation, where, in reaction to some kind of powerful attack, you entomb yourself in ice to resist the damage (you get a ton of temporary HP but are frozen in place etc etc).

Now this is a very cool idea! The basic principle is neat, there is some history behind it (see http://dungeonsdragons.wikia.com/wiki/Levistus ), it reminds me of one of the greatest demon of them all (Mei)... a lot of good things.

However, the execution... never mind the somewhat strange idea that having ice armor makes you *vulnerable* to fire (wouldn't it *protect* you?!?). Or the not exactly clear wording on how long those temporary HP last. That's not my issue.

My issue is the action economy. You are entombed in ice until the end of your next turn... so you lose your turn! So it's not like you avoid the damage via the ice, and then on your turn you get to do something to deal with the source of damage (run away? cast a spell at it? etc etc). Instead you protect yourself and... skip your turn, leaving whatever is the danger source free to act again on its turn - but now you don't have you cool defensive trick anymore.

I'll concede that there are some edge cases where you take a ton of damage once (fall off a cliff, a trap etc) but it's pretty rare no? Am I missing something?

Thanks!

The temps last until the end of your next turn, unless they are all destroyed on the 1st turn. You are only imprisoned as long as you have the temps, or until the end of your next turn in which case they melt away. It is created strictly to keep you alive against 1 powerful attack. Or 2 rounds of lesser attacks.

For example a red dragon breathes fire on the party save or take 80 damage. You use TOL and get 150 temps. Since it's vulnerable to fire, it takes 160 damage which melts and ends the Tomb and you make a save against the remaining 10 for half. Say the dragon was black instead of red and it was acid damage. Your Tomb blocks the 80, and you still have 70 temps on the next turn. If you take 0-70 damage, it doesn't matter, at the end of your turn, the ability ends.

 

[mellored]

You lose a turn, but so does the enemy who just wasted their attack to deal no real damage. Which effectivly gives your allies a free extra turn to beat on the enemy. Same as using your action to cast hypnotic pattern, but without a saving throw.

Also you can use it when you take something big, like a crit, or a big spell. Then the next round you take the non-crit, small spell damage.

 

[mach1.9pants]

The temps last until the end of your next turn, unless they are all destroyed on the 1st turn. You are only imprisoned as long as you have the temps, or until the end of your next turn in which case they melt away. It is created strictly to keep you alive against 1 powerful attack. Or 2 rounds of lesser attacks.

For example a red dragon breathes fire on the party save or take 80 damage. You use TOL and get 150 temps. Since it's vulnerable to fire, it takes 160 damage which melts and ends the Tomb and you make a save against the remaining 10 for half. Say the dragon was black instead of red and it was acid damage. Your Tomb blocks the 80, and you still have 70 temps on the next turn. If you take 0-70 damage, it doesn't matter, at the end of your turn, the ability ends.

Not quite with the fire damage, your vulnerability to fire takes place AFTER the initial damage. So the 10 HP per level absorbs 1 for 1 no matter the damage type. Then, if you have any temp HP left, you are vuln fire, 0 speed and incapacitated.

 

[ad_hoc]

My issue is the action economy. You are entombed in ice until the end of your next turn... so you lose your turn! So it's not like you avoid the damage via the ice, and then on your turn you get to do something to deal with the source of damage (run away? cast a spell at it? etc etc). Instead you protect yourself and... skip your turn, leaving whatever is the danger source free to act again on its turn - but now you don't have you cool defensive trick anymore.

I'll concede that there are some edge cases where you take a ton of damage once (fall off a cliff, a trap etc) but it's pretty rare no? Am I missing something?

Thanks!

Yeah, D&D is meant to be played with a party. Average of 4 characters.

A solo game will run into a lot of things like this.

 

[neogod22]

Not quite with the fire damage, your vulnerability to fire takes place AFTER the initial damage. So the 10 HP per level absorbs 1 for 1 no matter the damage type. Then, if you have any temp HP left, you are vuln fire, 0 speed and incapacitated.

Normally yes, but it specifically added the vulnerability in there, to put it on the temps. Special rules trump general.

 

[Ancalagon]

The temps last until the end of your next turn, unless they are all destroyed on the 1st turn. You are only imprisoned as long as you have the temps, or until the end of your next turn in which case they melt away. It is created strictly to keep you alive against 1 powerful attack. Or 2 rounds of lesser attacks.

The ice melts at the end of your next turn, not when you run out of temp HP. I mean if that's how you want to run it the more power to you, but that is not how it is written.

Normally yes, but it specifically added the vulnerability in there, to put it on the temps. Special rules trump general.

He is correct, the text *specifically* says that the vulnerability only starts after the initial damage is taken. So it works well vs a fireball or dragon blast... as long as a 2nd one isn't coming.

 

[neogod22]

The ice melts at the end of your next turn, not when you run out of temp HP. I mean if that's how you want to run it the more power to you, but that is not how it is written.



He is correct, the text specifically says that the vulnerability only starts after the initial damage is taken. So it works well vs a fireball or dragon blast... as long as a 2nd one isn't coming.

No, I just looked again, it says "As areaction when you take damage, you can entomb yourself in ice, which melts away at the end of your next turn."

 

[neogod22]

No, I just looked again, it says "As areaction when you take damage, you can entomb yourself in ice, which melts away at the end of your next turn."

Also "...These effects including any remaining temporary hitpoints, all end when the ice melts." Well I guess since you're not taking damage on your turn you're only stuck in it for one turn.

 

[Iry]

Very Cool? I can't believe you just made that pun.