Tome of Battle - Are they serious?

[buzz]

No chance of getting KC to make her argument here? I'd be interested in hearing it...

Ditto. I'm not sure I understand how the new base classes merit sensibility offense, which is no small crime.

 

[Staffan]

The Knight is possibly the penultimate tank.

So, which class would be better than the knight as a tank?

 

[Snapdragyn]

What there isn't a good check on is prestige classes. I've seen numerous prestige classes that have a whole scad of special abilities (feat-equivalents), and retain almost a full spellcasting progression. Part of the problem is the non-linear strength of spells, and part of it is the clunky "+1 spellcaster level" mechanic. Alright, a lot of them don't advance the familiar, but really that's not much of a penalty at all.

Keep in mind that not all 'balance factors' of a prestige class occur within the class itself. If a PrC gives full caster progression along with other goodies, but requires enough non-caster levels to enter it, it could still balance the net (pre-entry) loss of caster levels against the added abilities. Not to say that I've looked at every full-caster progresion PrC to confirm that this is the case, just a point to keep in mind (I have a DM who seems to be missing this, so it stood out to me.)

 

[Nightfall]

Wait...KidCthulu is a GIRL!?

Geez... The things I miss some times.

Staffan, the paladin! At least I think so...certainly they kind of have to be in the Scarred Lands since barbarians are too damn unreliable.

I'm always willing to give new classes a shot. But honestly if they can't compete against some of the d20 ones out there, they probably won't get much use from me. IE Hexblade, Warlock and Spellthief stand out along with Knight so far. Psionics...well different story.

 

[Mark Plemmons]

I got a couple copies in the mail today. The color scheme hurt my eyes. And personally, I'd recommend By the Sword: Dueling in Realms of Fantasy instead.

But that's just me.

 

[Nightfall]

People meet my cousin, the Pimpmister of Kalamar!

Good going Mark.

 

[Felon]

Note that the "Evasive Reflexes" feat is just a renamed version of the Sidestep feat from the Minis Handbook, although maybe that had a Combat Reflexes prereq.

Personally, I'd be glad to see that there are some actual defenses in place for a wizard against grapples. I actually avoid using wizard NPC's specifically because they're neutralized so easily by that exact maneuver.

Now, this is that part of that preview that produced a surge on the ol' lame-o-meter:

MANEUVERS AND STANCES

Each of the nine disciplines of the Sublime Way is composed of a number of specific stances and maneuvers -- namely, strikes, boosts, and counters. Much like a sorcerer's spells, each stance or maneuver is a specific ability that a character might know. But while a sorcerer's spells rely on arcane power that is depleted by continuous use, a martial adept's abilities are always available to him as long as he has a few minutes to prepare the maneuvers he wishes to use.

1ST LEVEL

DESERT WIND MANEUVERS

Blistering Flourish: Strike -- Dazzle creatures around you
Burning Blade: Boost -- Deal 1d6 fire + 1/initiator level
Distracting Ember: Boost -- Fire elemental appears, flanks enemy
Flame's Blessing: Stance -- Gain fire resistance based on Tumble ranks
Wind Stride: Boost -- +10-ft. bonus to speed

DEVOTED SPIRIT MANEUVERS

Crusader's Strike: Strike -- Successful attack allows you to heal 1d6 + 1/initiator level
Iron Guard's Glare: Stance -- Enemies take -4 penalty on attacks against your allies
Martial Spirit: Stance -- Heal 2 hit points with each successful attack
Vanguard Strike: Strike -- Allies gain +4 bonus on attacks against target

DIAMOND MIND MANEUVERS

Moment of Perfect Mind: Counter -- Use Concentration check in place of Will save
Sapphire Nightmare Blade: Strike -- Opponent flat-footed, +1d6 damage with Concentration check
Stance of Clarity: Stance -- Gain +2 AC against one foe, -2 against all others

IRON HEART MANEUVERS

Punishing Stance: Stance -- Attacks deal +1d6 damage, but you have -2 to AC
Steel Wind: Strike -- Attack two opponents
Steely Strike: Strike -- +4 bonus on one attack, enemies gain +4 bonus on attacks against you

SETTING SUN MANEUVERS

Counter Charge: Counter -- Ruin charge attack, force charging foe to move away from you
Mighty Throw: Strike -- Grab foe, throw him up to 10 ft.
Step of the Wind: Stance -- Ignore difficult terrain, gain bonus against foes in such terrain

SHADOW HAND MANEUVERS

Child of Shadow: Stance -- You gain concealment as long as you move
Clinging Shadow Strike: Strike -- Foe suffers 20% miss chance on attacks
Island of Blades: Stance -- You and allies flank all adjacent foes
Shadow Blade Technique: Strike -- Roll two attacks, use lower result to deal bonus cold damage

STONE DRAGON MANEUVERS

Charging Minotaur: Strike -- Charging bull rush deals damage, ignores attacks of opportunity
Stone Bones: Strike -- Gain DR 5/adamantine
Stonefoot Stance: Stance -- +2 bonus on Strength checks, +2 bonus to AC against larger foes

TIGER CLAW MANEUVERS

Blood in the Water: Stance -- Gain +1 bonus on attacks and damage for each critical hit
Hunter's Sense: Stance -- Gain scent
Sudden Leap: Boost -- Jump as a swift action
Wolf Fang Strike: Strike -- Attack with two weapons

WHITE RAVEN MANEUVERS

Bolstering Voice: Stance -- Allies gain +2 bonus on Will saves, +4 against fear
Douse the Flames: Strike -- Target cannot make attacks of opportunity for 1 round
Leading the Attack: Strike -- Allies gain +4 bonus on attacks against foe you strike
Leading the Charge: Stance -- Allies deal +1 damage/initiator level on charge attacks

OK, so it's spells for warriors, providing them with heals, buffs, debuffs, summons and the like with a coating of fluff to disguise the taste.

 

[MerricB]

Now, this is that part of that preview that produced a surge on the ol' lame-o-meter:

OK, so it's spells for warriors, providing them with heals, buffs, debuffs, summons and the like with a coating of fluff to disguise the taste.

A terrible truth about D&D is that it uses the same mechanics for everything, thus, new bonuses resemble old bonuses.

The difference between "Weapon Focus" and "Divine Favour" is very small indeed; they both provide a bonus to attack. The difference is that one is presumed to be from extra training, the other a divine gift.

However, as we discover through playing the game, there are great differences in how these bonuses are obtained and activated. Psionics may look like magic, but the differences do distinguish it in play; likewise with Incarnum, and likely the approaches in this book.

Cheers!

 

[Aaron L]

I just hope the bonuses are all Extraordinary and not Supernatural.

This book looks neat to me. I am all in favor of more base classes, provided they are good. Ive never understgood why limiting base classes to some arbitrary small number helps anything. You cant boil all fantasy or mythological archetypes or roles down into just the classes in the PHB.

This book looks to me like it will be able to fill the role people have wanted of a nonspiritual unarmed combatant that the monks always gets assaulted for not being. Thats good, but I see many of the same people who complain about the monk also complaining about more base classes. The Martial Adept I predict will be someone dedicated to perfecting themselves as a combatant/weapon without the Fighters focus on weapons and armor or the Monks focus on spiritual perfection.


Between more base classes, subsitution levels (which I think are a great idea) and prestige classes, weve got the tools to cover just about anything.

 

[Knight Otu]

Note that the "Evasive Reflexes" feat is just a renamed version of the Sidestep feat from the Minis Handbook, although maybe that had a Combat Reflexes prereq.

It isn't. Sidestep allows you to take a 5-foot step after making an attack of opportunity, and has much more stringent prerequisites.