One solution to the problem of npc's overshadowing the PC's is to make the npc's limited. For instance, in a recent game we needed someone with tracking to help us track down a lair. None of the PC's had Track, and the only npc was an 11-year old kid. We hired the kid, sweating every minute that something bad would happen and get him killed. Once he got us to the right area, we hightailed it back to town, dropped off the kid, then went back to clean out the lair.
Too Many NPCs?
- Thread starter ptolemy18
- Start date
ThirdWizard
First Post
I find that NPCs occasionally traveling with the PCs is not a big deal, but NPCs need to get their screentime then go do something else, letting another NPC into the spotlight. It can be rough to run several NPCs at once, especially if they start talking to each other! I can understand your desire for NPCs not to be weakling cannon fodder, but that doesn't mean they should always travel with the PCs.
Here's how some NPCs worked out in my game:
Four NPCs slightly higher level than the PCs are another adventuring group. They cross paths once in a while, and especially in town. They have their own goals and motivations and have no real reason to help the PCs out with their quests since they have quests of their own to work on.
A druid adventured with the party for a while, then decided to leave. Current whereabouts unknown but last seen off in the boonies helping a small town to defend itself against a group of goblinoids.
A bard who gets into trouble. He had to skip town because he gambled with a forged deed and lost. Current whereabouts unknown, though I'm soon planning for him to make a very loud appearance.
A devout member of the church who travels with the party at the moment and more than anything wants to see the planes. I'm now working on a way to remove her from the party. She's been there too long.
A semi-retired wizard who is actually only fifth level, he makes scrolls and other trinkets for adventurers. He can hold his own in low level encounters, but has no desire to adventure.
And lots more. But, you get the idea. These are all at least 5th level. They don't travel with the PCs, in fact those that do will find that they have to do something else eventually. Then I'll have another NPC tag along with the group (mainly because they have no healer and will find a healer to join them).
NPCs have their own lives, goals, etc. Unless the PCs are willing to drop everything whenever one of them needs to do something, I would think that they wouldn't drop everything whenever the PCs have some durded crazy scheme (read: adventure) planned. Sure, sometimes their paths will cross and they'll work together, but usually they have other things that need attention. That way you can get more characterization out of NPCs and leave plenty of time left for the PCs themselves.
Here's how some NPCs worked out in my game:
Four NPCs slightly higher level than the PCs are another adventuring group. They cross paths once in a while, and especially in town. They have their own goals and motivations and have no real reason to help the PCs out with their quests since they have quests of their own to work on.
A druid adventured with the party for a while, then decided to leave. Current whereabouts unknown but last seen off in the boonies helping a small town to defend itself against a group of goblinoids.
A bard who gets into trouble. He had to skip town because he gambled with a forged deed and lost. Current whereabouts unknown, though I'm soon planning for him to make a very loud appearance.
A devout member of the church who travels with the party at the moment and more than anything wants to see the planes. I'm now working on a way to remove her from the party. She's been there too long.
A semi-retired wizard who is actually only fifth level, he makes scrolls and other trinkets for adventurers. He can hold his own in low level encounters, but has no desire to adventure.
And lots more. But, you get the idea. These are all at least 5th level. They don't travel with the PCs, in fact those that do will find that they have to do something else eventually. Then I'll have another NPC tag along with the group (mainly because they have no healer and will find a healer to join them).
NPCs have their own lives, goals, etc. Unless the PCs are willing to drop everything whenever one of them needs to do something, I would think that they wouldn't drop everything whenever the PCs have some durded crazy scheme (read: adventure) planned. Sure, sometimes their paths will cross and they'll work together, but usually they have other things that need attention. That way you can get more characterization out of NPCs and leave plenty of time left for the PCs themselves.
ThirdWizard said:
ThirdWizard, I think you're doing it pretty much exactly the way I'd like to do it.
The PCs don't have any "permanent" NPC hangers-on, but they've ended up travelling with NPCs now and then.Really, my problem for awhile was that I wasn't adjusting CRs appropriately to account for the additional NPCs, leading to some excessively easy fights.
Also, if the PCs are close to finishing off a monster on their own, it's probably a good idea for the NPCs to stay out of the fight, even if it seems logical that they would join. Nothing worse than a kill-stealing NPC.
Jason
ThirdWizard
First Post
Ah yes, one of the great things about NPC healers/buffers is that they help out, but don't take away from what the PCs are doing. When the NPC buffs the fighter will Bull's Strength, she's contributing to the offense of the party, but the party barbarian still gets to feel good about the extra damage he's doing. Likewise, nobody complains when the NPC is the one to rush over and cure someone who is on the brink of death.
This is the one time you'll hear me advise to fudge. That's right, I said it! Celebrim, mark your calendar! If an NPC does enough damage to kill an enemy or pull off something great by accident, down-play it and don't kill off the bad guy. Then let the PC finish it off. Not every time, but for those battles where its important, like going up against a dragon when the party hasn't seen one in a long time. There's little worse than the NPC critting with a sling and getting the killing stroke on the dragon the others have worked so hard to take down...
As for CR, that can be tricky. When you go outside the 4 person party, things get a bit wonky... Just remember to change the numbers of enemies rather than choosing naturally higher CR encounters, and you should be okay.
This is the one time you'll hear me advise to fudge. That's right, I said it! Celebrim, mark your calendar!
If an NPC does enough damage to kill an enemy or pull off something great by accident, down-play it and don't kill off the bad guy. Then let the PC finish it off. Not every time, but for those battles where its important, like going up against a dragon when the party hasn't seen one in a long time. There's little worse than the NPC critting with a sling and getting the killing stroke on the dragon the others have worked so hard to take down...As for CR, that can be tricky. When you go outside the 4 person party, things get a bit wonky... Just remember to change the numbers of enemies rather than choosing naturally higher CR encounters, and you should be okay.
Bibliophile
First Post
IMC, most of the NPCs don't hang around with the adventuring party, they simply don't want to. Now, I do tend to run "fated" games, with each campaign usually revolving around some great question about the nature of the multiverse, and in those, simply put, the NPCs aren't the "destined ones." It's not their job to be out, saving the world, so they attend to their own things.
Kid Socrates
First Post
I run two games for two sets of players, so there's an NPC traveling with each of them. In both parties he's an upfront fighter-type, mostly there to round the party out. He's built on the same stats as they are, so it's balanced. However, I fudge rolls. Just like one poster said, if a major enemy is low on health, the NPC will take that round to heal a struggling party member or grapple him to hold him for the big guns.
I've had other NPCs involved in battles, but they're usually off in the distance. If an extra one is in the party, they're good enough to be competent, but really not stealing the show. I tend to be a bit more tactical with them -- capitalizing on PC manuevers, or setting up PC manuevers. Grappling, tripping, disarming, or finding a way to buff the party. That way they're still helping and aren't looked upon as dead weight, but don't take the spotlight away.
I'm starting to have NPCs work to help the PCs in other ways. They fought alongside a blacksmith/pilot before, and now he's behind the scenes, working on their ship and upgrading their weapons. Keeps him familiar, and also off the front lines.
The NPCs really don't have to be in combat -- and if they are, it's very possible, and logical to say, "Lord Revilgaz emerges from the shadows to confront your entire group. 'Do you truly believe that your pitiful band of imitation heroes has any chance against my elite lieutenants and my well-trained men?' Beside you, Norin the Good-Hearted says under his breath, 'I will get his men out of your way. Don't worry about me -- just get Revilgaz. I'll join you if I can.'" And then you roll a couple dice to see how their battle goes, while the PCs, the real heroes, beat the tar out of Revilgaz.
I used to use NPCs too much -- small party syndrome. I still use a few to keep heat off the spellcaster, but they're still support for the heroes.
I've had other NPCs involved in battles, but they're usually off in the distance. If an extra one is in the party, they're good enough to be competent, but really not stealing the show. I tend to be a bit more tactical with them -- capitalizing on PC manuevers, or setting up PC manuevers. Grappling, tripping, disarming, or finding a way to buff the party. That way they're still helping and aren't looked upon as dead weight, but don't take the spotlight away.
I'm starting to have NPCs work to help the PCs in other ways. They fought alongside a blacksmith/pilot before, and now he's behind the scenes, working on their ship and upgrading their weapons. Keeps him familiar, and also off the front lines.
The NPCs really don't have to be in combat -- and if they are, it's very possible, and logical to say, "Lord Revilgaz emerges from the shadows to confront your entire group. 'Do you truly believe that your pitiful band of imitation heroes has any chance against my elite lieutenants and my well-trained men?' Beside you, Norin the Good-Hearted says under his breath, 'I will get his men out of your way. Don't worry about me -- just get Revilgaz. I'll join you if I can.'" And then you roll a couple dice to see how their battle goes, while the PCs, the real heroes, beat the tar out of Revilgaz.
I used to use NPCs too much -- small party syndrome. I still use a few to keep heat off the spellcaster, but they're still support for the heroes.
