Too many TPKs?

[Janx]

this is a fork from DonTadow's DM Intervention thread.

he describes a GM who's had like 5 TPKs with the same party.

My question is, by default, would you suspect the problem lies in the GM, the players, or be so neutral that the Swiss would be jealous?

Obviously, we'd all want to hear more details before making a final decision.

But what's your gut say when you hear a GM has a lot of TPKs with his group?

Mine says that unless the players are particularly stupid (or aren't taking it seriously), the GM has failed to detect a style preference difference and may find he has no game soon.

Though I respect the GM does all the work and thus can run things however he likes, if he fails to deliver the fun, he'll have no game, no matter how right he is.

 

[nedjer]

I'll sell characters into slavery, steal all their money and suck a few levels straight out their necks; but I rarely kill them.

 

[Halivar]

It depends on the circumstances, and the type of genre.

Survival horror? The session is not complete without a TPK.

D&D? A well-balanced encounter should not end in a TPK. Someone did something wrong.

I have had the good fortune to have good players who use their abilities to the utmost and play smart, and thus have never had a TPK. My usual DM has had the misfortune to DM for a group that defied his every attempt to keep them alive. On the other hand, I hear horror stories from players in my group who have had constant TPK's from Mad Gamer DM's.

For my part, I think a good DM will scale the encounter not only to the characters, but to the players. For instance, going full tactical on a gaming group with the strategic acumen more suited for Chutes & Ladders is not going to lead to the best, most exciting gaming experience.

My thought is this: if you have a TPK; no sweat. Bad luck. Sometimes the dice are crazy. But if it happens twice? The DM needs to start re-calibrating something.

 

[Nagol]

Multiple TPKs with the same players suggests the DM and player group have stylistic differences.

Possibly the DM is attempting the 'train' the group about being careful and the group just wants to charge in.

In any event, if the situation isn't pleasing to evryone, they need to have a discussion about what the various parties are looking for and determine if the current group can support a style everyone will be happy with.

 

[Reynard]

On the other hand, if there are multiple TPKs and the game goes on, perhaps it is a good fit. Maybe the players like being taken to the hilt and don't mind having to create new characters.

 

[saskganesh]

Back in the day, I ran the same adventure (Hommlet) with two different groups. One TPK'ed, while the other never lost a character.

I think the difference makers were rule mastery and group cooperation.

Sounds like the TPK group is a bunch of newer players. They might need some help surviving.

 

[Bedrockgames]

this is a fork from DonTadow's DM Intervention thread.

he describes a GM who's had like 5 TPKs with the same party.

My question is, by default, would you suspect the problem lies in the GM, the players, or be so neutral that the Swiss would be jealous?

Obviously, we'd all want to hear more details before making a final decision.

But what's your gut say when you hear a GM has a lot of TPKs with his group?

Mine says that unless the players are particularly stupid (or aren't taking it seriously), the GM has failed to detect a style preference difference and may find he has no game soon.

Though I respect the GM does all the work and thus can run things however he likes, if he fails to deliver the fun, he'll have no game, no matter how right he is.

It really depends on the expectations of the group and the style of campaign. I've played with some groups where this is kind of the norm whne doing things like dungeons delves. However if the players were ticked, the GM thought he was being fair but wasn't, and people weren't expecting that level of challenge, then I would peg the issue on the GM.

 

[the Jester]

It very much depends.

For instance, the answer to what I think could be "They're doing it right" if they're playing Paranoia.

 

[Agamon]

The TPKs from my group have usually come from the opposite problem to the 15-minute adventure day, the just-a-little-further adventure day. My players (or a couple of them in particular) hate backing down from anything for any reason, and they'll often jump from the frying pan into the fire to try and fight it.

Sometimes they're brave, sometimes they're stupid. The line is quite thin.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

this is a fork from DonTadow's DM Intervention thread.

he describes a GM who's had like 5 TPKs with the same party.

My question is, by default, would you suspect the problem lies in the GM, the players, or be so neutral that the Swiss would be jealous?

Obviously, we'd all want to hear more details before making a final decision.

But what's your gut say when you hear a GM has a lot of TPKs with his group?

Mine says that unless the players are particularly stupid (or aren't taking it seriously), the GM has failed to detect a style preference difference and may find he has no game soon.

Though I respect the GM does all the work and thus can run things however he likes, if he fails to deliver the fun, he'll have no game, no matter how right he is.

My first TPK in 4e was due to lack of experience (I was the DM). There haven't been any since, but there were some really close calls in my current campaign, usually trying "new" things against the PCs. Sometimes they don't work out.

From the other thread, it seems the fault is probably more the DM's than the players', IMO. Two PCs (out of 5) do seem suicidal, but the DM doesn't exercise enough flexibility to even nerf encounters when fewer players show up. This is, of course, based on extremely limited information.