D&D 5E Too Much Healing Going On?

[DND_Reborn]

Once again, thanks to all for the replies!

The party size is a factor, but I know our DM (and myself when I DM) create encounters meant to reflect easy-deadly for 6.5 PCs (one is a retainer). A good deadly encounter (such as the 3 dragons) can be hair-raising, which is great, but I do think the game (and thus encounters) are designed around full or near-full HP as @Paul Farquhar and others suggest.

I also agree with others that once you get to level 5, the dynamic shifts considerably. And a lot of our healing in our party is done after the fact. Healing kits (and the Healer feat), goodberries, or even a potion of healing generally tops PCs off (or close to it) in HP. We rarely need to resort to in-combat healing (with the only exception being really deadly encounters or strings of battles).

I know encounter design is part of it, but there is just something about it all that rubs me the wrong way... I'll have to think more on it.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I know encounter design is part of it, but there is just something about it all that rubs me the wrong way... I'll have to think more on it.

As a dm, if you look at hp that way, you will miss all the resources that ARE being drained, like HD, spell slots, class features, and magic items. Looking at hp alone is not taking in the full picture, and so it doesn't show what you're thinking it should, because that's on a different indicator.

This is wht dm's tend to think that all their encounters are really easy, while their players are really enjoying how challenging everything is. The dm is paying attention to what the combat actually costs, so it seems cheap.

This is different than 1e/2e, where getting back hp was really hard so watching hp go down over the course of the adventure did show the pc's getting worn out. But that's just not what hp means in 5e.

 

[Umbran]

Do you find this to be about the same in your game? Or is healing hard to come by? I know level plays a big factor, but what about in general terms overall?

Two days ago, in the climax fight of The Dragon of Icespire Peak, said dragon got in my Artificer's face, got off a claw-claw-bite, and dropped him like a sack of potatoes without needing the second claw. I was at 2/3 of max hit points at the time of that attack combo. The base damage for its breath weapon alone would have taken me down at max hit points. If we didn't have cold resistance and failed the save, it would be one-hit-kill for three quarters of the party.

How much healing you do as you go along goes hand-in-hand with the amount of damage the bad guys can put out at once. When the opponent can do 2/3 or more of your hit points in one round, yes, you probably want to be walking around at 90%+ of your max most of the time. If the opponents can only nickel-and-dime you, you might relax. But, in general, walking around notably under full is a risky choice. YMMV.

 

[DND_Reborn]

As a dm, if you look at hp that way, you will miss all the resources that ARE being drained, like HD, spell slots, class features, and magic items. Looking at hp alone is not taking in the full picture, and so it doesn't show what you're thinking it should, because that's on a different indicator.

This is wht dm's tend to think that all their encounters are really easy, while their players are really enjoying how challenging everything is. The dm is paying attention to what the combat actually costs, so it seems cheap.

This is different than 1e/2e, where getting back hp was really hard so watching hp go down over the course of the adventure did show the pc's getting worn out. But that's just not what hp means in 5e.

Sure, of course it costs resources to get those HP back up, but the issue is those resource (HD, spell slots, etc.) are usually available. We've had times where the "adventuring day" is getting on, and we had to keep spells for healing back for other uses, but those are rare. The issue remains that since the PCs begin most encounters with full HP, it makes it feel strange when I think about it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Two days ago, in the climax fight of The Dragon of Icespire Peak, said dragon got in my Artificer's face, got off a claw-claw-bite, and dropped him like a sack of potatoes without needing the second claw. I was at 2/3 of max hit points at the time of that attack combo. The base damage for its breath weapon alone would have taken me down at max hit points. If I didn't have cold resistance and I failed the save, it would be one-hit-kill for three quarters of the party.

How much healing you do as you go along goes hand-in-hand with the amount of damage the bad guys can put out at once. When the opponent can do 2/3 or more of your hit points in one round, yes, you probably want to be walking around at 90%+ of your max most of the time. If the opponents can only nickel-and-dime you, you might relax. But, in general, walking around notably under full is a risky choice. YMMV.

At the level we're at, our PCs range from 100-160 hp (or so). There isn't much in the game that does that sort of damage or even close to it. Now, it happens (the Adult Red Dragon's breath for 63 hurt a lot!), but other than those potentially deadly encounters, most hits are 10-20 points, with the Fire Giants doing about 30.

Now, I think more to the point is you never know when that dangerous encounter is coming up, so yes you want to be as full in HP as you generally can. The issue then becomes, the medium and hard encounters might drain some resources, but they really aren't a challenge.

I don't know, I can't put my finger quite on it, but it all just bugs me for some reason...

 

[dave2008]

Do you find this to be about the same in your game? Or is healing hard to come by? I know level plays a big factor, but what about in general terms overall?

We have no magical healers in our group (only magic user is a wizard), so healing is pretty hard to come by and HP attrition is a real issue.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Sure, of course it costs resources to get those HP back up, but the issue is those resource (HD, spell slots, etc.) are usually available. We've had times where the "adventuring day" is getting on, and we had to keep spells for healing back for other uses, but those are rare. The issue remains that since the PCs begin most encounters with full HP, it makes it feel strange when I think about it.

I think you feeling strange is kinda the problem here, rather than anything else.

You have four characters who can output a lot of healing. Druids can heal crazy amounts (esp. if you haven't nerfed Healing Spirit and it sounds like you might not have - otherwise it heals for a joke amount), Clerics are really solid-to-great depending on subclass, and Paladin is a whole chunk of healing. I don't see your total party size or if anyone else can either heal or generate THP, but I presume there's a bit of that too.

Given that the biggest death-risk in 5E, is starting a fight on low HP, getting downed instantly (then either taking enough damage to die instantly, or taking multiple hits which force extra death saves), and they have four strong healers in the party, why on earth would they be starting fights, intentionally, on less than maximum HP? Sounds like you're mid-to-high level, too, so they have a huge depth of spell slots to pull on, too.

Add in that they're using HD and potions sensibly, and it sounds like what you're complaining about is a big fat case of "Working As Intended". A big clue is in the healing potions. If they weren't being pressed at all, if they felt totally safe, they wouldn't be using consumables like that. They'd just stay in their bags to rot.

I don't think you need to change anything, just get on board with the fact that the party is healing heavy.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

At the level we're at, our PCs range from 100-160 hp (or so). There isn't much in the game that does that sort of damage or even close to it. Now, it happens (the Adult Red Dragon's breath for 63 hurt a lot!), but other than those potentially deadly encounters, most hits are 10-20 points, with the Fire Giants doing about 30.

Now, I think more to the point is you never know when that dangerous encounter is coming up, so yes you want to be as full in HP as you generally can. The issue then becomes, the medium and hard encounters might drain some resources, but they really aren't a challenge.

You're not thinking like a player.

A player doesn't want their PC to die. You're sneering at 30-point hits, but they could be crits for 50. And four thirty-point hits landing on a 110 HP character means they're down, and in need of massive healing.

Also, did they start around 10-14, or did they level to there normally? Because at lower levels, and awful lot of hits are 15 or 20 HP when you only have 30 or 50 HP, and it's only as you get to higher levels to the amounts of damage tend to seem relatively lower vs HP totals. So they'll be playing cautiously because they remember how it was.

You say "Oh for a dangerous encounter you want to be on full HP! But medium and hard aren't a challenge!". Well, buddy you got two separate issues here. And both of them stem from not thinking like a player. A player doesn't know what the "difficulty" on the next encounter is going to be. They have to assume every next encounter is Deadly. Not sure why you're not getting that. So they heal up to full, because it would be outright stupid not to, if they have the opportunity and it doesn't blow too many resources (and they seem to managing resources extremely well). And guess what? Medium encounters at 12th level aren't challenging. At all. There's no chance of death or real risk. That's how they are. Hard ones are rarely much more threatening. But they do drain resources, and that does add up. Players feel the challenge, as people have been trying to explain, because they see all the boxes for spell slots filling up, and their HD going down (and remember, you only get 50% HD back on a long rest). But DMs can be like you and be like "Pfffft you guys are all on full, whatevs...". So accept that medium/hard are there to burn resources, more than to provide "challenges" or the like. They burn a lot more resources if approached in a bad way.

 

[dave2008]

. The issue then becomes, the medium and hard encounters might drain some resources, but they really aren't a challenge.

That is by design. It is explained right in the DMG. Only the deadly encounters really give a chance at defeat. So pretty much everything below deadly is designed to drain some resources or just story development. If you want a challenge you need to use deadly encounters.

This is the only one that sounds like a challenge to me:

PS. So the answer to the issue is: use more deadly encounters if you want more challenges and use 2x or 3x deadly if you truly want a fearsome encounter

 

[Seramus]

Players can definitely output a lot of healing, but that is usually at the opportunity cost of using other things that would make fights shorter.

At Tier 4 I regularly deal 80-120 damage to the party per round, with higher spikes for big spells. Keeping fights short is often the best way to conserve HP.