Top 10 odd D&D weapons

[VirgilCaine]

The thing is, based on knowing a bit of what armor is really like to wear, touch, be touched by etc., and some of the tests done on real or realisitc armor, if you are actually assuming something like a full plate harness I think this is actually going to be hard and painful to try to bite through or grasp for anything but the largest creatures. I mean, a 10 foot bull shark cant' even bite through (aluminum alloy) shark-proof chainmail gnawwing and gnawwing.

Given how strong we know plate armor was, how is even a Dragon going to bite through it without breaking his teeth. Given the physics of some longbow and crossbow test-firings I've seen done, I seriously doubt even a grizzly, a polar bear or a full grown tiger could bite or claw a man in full harness (the only way it could do damage would be blunt trauma of knocking yer knight down etc.) and I guarantee pouncing on a plate armored opponent would be damaging to the teeth / claws of the critter in question (unless they were themselves made of tempered steel or some imaginary magical metal like adamantium), not to mention to any other exposed flesh. Wrestling with an armored knight is a great way to break bones and abrade fur and hide in fact.

In other words, I really don't think you would need spikes even if they did make sense, which I don't think they do.

What about giants or other larger-than-man-sized creatures grappling or picking up someone?

 

[big dummy]

What about giants or other larger-than-man-sized creatures grappling or picking up someone?

I dont' know, I'm not a physiscist, but I've seen a musket ball and a bolt from a 1200 lb crossbow bounce right off of a tempered steel breastplate. That is hard stuff. Most people never even see tempered steel these days, usually just stainless steel which is considerably weaker and far more brittle. But try bending or denting 12 guage stainless steel for that matter (let alone breaking through it). Pick up a stainless steel frying pan and see how easily you can rip it apart it in your bare hands. Now try to imagine if it was about twice as strong.

There are probably people in this forum from the SCA who have a lot more direct experience than I do with heavy armor (including coat of plates) and how easy it is to crush or puncture.

Frankly I think a giant, say ten feet tall, would tear himself up trying to grapple a knight in full harness, (though he may well be able to buffet that indivdual to the point of death inside of that armor, or say, twist his head all the way around). Of course, if you get big enough, eventually you will reach a point where you could probably crush steel. I don't know the math.

BD

 

[big dummy]

It did exist, but artist depictions of it are pretty off. The studs were typically every .5" to 1.5" apart, more like you'd see on Rob Halford in the days before he left Judas Priest. It was pretty decent at turning slashing attacks, but very little else.

The problem is there are very few examples of it that have survived. Unlike leather armor, the backing for studded leather is soft leather, and it has a tendency to rot, leaving behind scraps or in extreme cases, just a pile of rivets. It would also need significant repairs after almost any encounter, which wasn't much of a problem, since repairs would be cheap.

Do you have access to some kind of evidence that this type of armor existed? From what I have gathered leather itself was actually fairly expensive in Europe through most of the Medieval period and wasn't used that much as armor. Some cuir boulli in Italy, particularly for limb armor (some of which still survives in muesums) I know of some cuir boilli lamellar as well, and a some examples of russian "bakhtarets" armor incorporating leather and mail and small plates... but I've never seen anything like "studded" leather or ringmail for that matter.

If you have a source though I'd love to see it.

BD

 

[hamishspence]

the brigantine armour looks EXACTLY like the depiction of Studded leather in the Diablo 2 game. Satisfying me. (in Diablo 1 the armour looks like a biker jacket: not so good )

Greatsword: to me means Claymore. William Wallace wielded an outsized version still to be seen in Stirling Castle. Biiig. In the Player Guide, Regdar's weapon simply shouts Claymore.

Longsword: isn't that what the Vikings wielded? Fairly bulky, at least. Pictures usually show a fairly big sword in one hand, shield in other.

Short sword: Roman gladius approximates best.

Scimitar: Generic curved sword: used in some real life cultures

Zweihander: the biggest of these can be represented by the Fullblade. Captures the difficuly of wielding such a huge weapon. (extra nonproficiency penalty)

Greatbow. 6 ft long. In some robin hood novels it states that his bow is man-high. Not sure if this is actually the case in real life bows.

Mercurial weapons. Dubious at best.

Spiked armour. Not sure how long spikes get before problems start. Not a very hand weapon though: grappling mostly.

Spiked chain. Dubious. Chains wielded as improvised weapons (by escaped slaves) feature in some novels. It probably represents a more dangerous version of this.

Yes, the combat system has its flaws. It is an abstration, so cannot ever be perfected. Might improve with each edition though. Remember more than 90% of D&D world people are 1st level: where 1 hit frequently = unconsiousness and often bleeding to death in <1 min.

Dragon magazine had an article 18+ months ago discussing samurai vs knight: weapons, armour, etc and said they were evenly matched. Not sure if I agree.

 

[hamishspence]

My views on thread topic.

the brigantine armour looks EXACTLY like the depiction of Studded leather in the Diablo 2 game. Satisfying me. (in Diablo 1 the armour looks like a biker jacket: not so good )

Greatsword: to me means Claymore. William Wallace wielded an outsized version still to be seen in Stirling Castle. Biiig. In the Player Guide, Regdar's weapon simply shouts Claymore.

Longsword: isn't that what the Vikings wielded? Fairly bulky, at least. Pictures usually show a fairly big sword in one hand, shield in other.

Short sword: Roman gladius approximates best.

Scimitar: Generic curved sword: used in some real life cultures

Zweihander: the biggest of these can be represented by the Fullblade. Captures the difficuly of wielding such a huge weapon. (extra nonproficiency penalty)

Greatbow. 6 ft long. In some robin hood novels it states that his bow is man-high. Not sure if this is actually the case in real life bows.

Mercurial weapons. Dubious at best.

Spiked armour. Not sure how long spikes get before problems start. Not a very hand weapon though: grappling mostly.

Spiked chain. Dubious. Chains wielded as improvised weapons (by escaped slaves) feature in some novels. It probably represents a more dangerous version of this.

Yes, the combat system has its flaws. It is an abstration, so cannot ever be perfected. Might improve with each edition though. Remember more than 90% of D&D world people are 1st level: where 1 hit frequently = unconsiousness and often bleeding to death in <1 min.

Dragon magazine had an article 18+ months ago discussing samurai vs knight: weapons, armour, etc and said they were evenly matched. Not sure if I agree.

 

[Rolzup]

I dont' know, I'm not a physiscist, but I've seen a musket ball and a bolt from a 1200 lb crossbow bounce right off of a tempered steel breastplate. That is hard stuff. Most people never even see tempered steel these days, usually just stainless steel which is considerably weaker and far more brittle. But try bending or denting 12 guage stainless steel for that matter (let alone breaking through it). Pick up a stainless steel frying pan and see how easily you can rip it apart it in your bare hands. Now try to imagine if it was about twice as strong.

Again, though: Nine tons of pressure, estimated, from something that's essentially a forty-foot crocodile. Not a bad description of a dragon, really.

But halve it, just to be conservative: would a typical suit of armor stand up to 4.5 tons of pressure? This is an honest question, mind! I'm guessing that the answer is "no", but I'm hardly an expert.

 

[big dummy]

Again, though: Nine tons of pressure, estimated, from something that's essentially a forty-foot crocodile. Not a bad description of a dragon, really.

But halve it, just to be conservative: would a typical suit of armor stand up to 4.5 tons of pressure? This is an honest question, mind! I'm guessing that the answer is "no", but I'm hardly an expert.

I dont know to be honest, but I do know that teeth, bones, and flesh will have a hard time holding up to tempered steel. Even if your 20' croc could crush it or even bite through it, I bet he would lose about half of his teeth and be at serious risk of breaking his jaw. I would guess he would let go as soon as he took the first bite. Either that or gently grab the knight, roll a few times until he drowned, and then go hide him under a stump somewhere to soften up gradually....

BD

 

[Someone]

Of course, if you get big enough, eventually you will reach a point where you could probably crush steel. I don't know the math.

BD

Such giant would have bones -and muscles- that would laugh at steel, or his weight alone would crush him.

 

[lukelightning]

....Even if your 20' croc could crush it or even bite through it, I bet he would lose about half of his teeth and be at serious risk of breaking his jaw....

But what about my super killa ninja crocs that have katanas for teeth and can spit out shuriken?

 

[genshou]

But what about my super killa ninja crocs that have katanas for teeth and can spit out shuriken?

Those are in a class all their own. Especially if they become pirates.