Top 10 odd D&D weapons

[genshou]

Right, I think again this is something a slayer fan was more likely to wear than an actual knight

Most people believe "Studded leather" is a mistaken interpretation of brigantine, a popular type of armor which did actually exist in widespread use from around the 13th century through the late Reniassance.

Brigantine was usually a vest or jack, made of alternating layers of leather or cloth, with iron plates underneath. The plates would be affixed to the leather by studs. Thus to the uninitiated it looked like "studded leather". It was actually far more effective as protection.

But just as "splint" mail existed as limb armor but was never (to my knowlege) used as torso protection let alone made into an entire "suit", "studded leather" would normally only be worn as torso armor.

[image snipped]


BD

The stats for brigandine are in various D&D books. If I remember right, it's a medium armour. Not quite the same as D&D studded leather (which is lighter than a chain shirt).

 

[big dummy]

The stats for brigandine are in various D&D books. If I remember right, it's a medium armour. Not quite the same as D&D studded leather (which is lighter than a chain shirt).

Like I said, I really don't think "studded leather" existed in real life. For what it's worth leather armor is a lot different than the way D&D portrays it, much more bulky for one thing.

The most common "light" armor were different types of cloth padded armor, gambesons and jupons and arming jacks and the like, some of which were rather effective.

Much later in the 16th -17th century you start to see Cavalry using the buff coat which was made of specially treated buffalo leather (with whale oil I think?) and somewhat resembled the leather armor in D&D.

BD

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I dont know to be honest, but I do know that teeth, bones, and flesh will have a hard time holding up to tempered steel.

There was a National Geographic some years ago that detailed an expedition to do some research on types of pirana...they pointed out that at least one day ended with hooks that had been bitten to pieces.

Do you have access to some kind of evidence that this type of armor existed...but I've never seen anything like "studded" leather or ringmail for that matter.

I haven't seen any evidence of the ringmail either, but as for the studded stuff, I was once told by a curator that there are scattered scraps (like hand sized) of things they believe to be studded leather. Their belief was based upon, among other things, that they couldn't think of another purpose for soft leather to be studded with steel. They could be wrong, of course.

If there was such a thing as ringmail, it was probably similar in characteristics to studded leather- in other words, soft leather with rings of metal, limited in protective value...and thus, just as subject to deterioration.

Like the discussion of mercurial swords, such armors would probably be rare anyway...most people who could afford such craftsmanship (nice soft leathers + lots of rivets or rings + time to attach the rivets or rings = expensive to buy) would opt for armors that are more protective.

The main advantages to such armors, if they really existed, would be that once bought, they'd be cheap to maintain (if you know a modicum of sewing, etc.) and would be relatively quiet, flexible and compact. You could, with the proper design, wear such armor under certain clothes without it being uncomfortable.

Rob Halford wore a set of studded leathers in concert in Brazil that weighed somewhere around 25lbs, and it didn't slow him down- the only downside he noted was that the hot stage lights actually had their heat transferred to his skin directly by the studs, causing hundreds of tiny burns.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just another aside about spiked armor...

You do find a lot of aquatic critters that use spikes to avoid being eaten/grappled.

The Urchin and puffer fish are the most obvious, but many others have them as well...many catfish have sharp spines in their main fins, the Acanthurus has retractible blades along its sides, and some creatures even poison their spikes, like the lionfish...

All adaptations to facing opponents much larger than you. We never had predators like that in the real world, but if large carnosaurs had roamed Middle-Ages Europe, I bet someone would have at least tried it out.

 

[Hussar]

DA, I was thinking something similar.

All the realistic discussion of weapons and armor is well and good, but, none of the real world armors were particularly designed to foil a 150 foot bloody lizard. Or any of the plethora of monsters out there in DnD land. This would almost have to change the development of armor greatly.

RL armor developed in tandem with the weapons of the time. Fantasy armor would as well to a point, but, no matter how well you make a sword, it's just not as effective as the crushing end of a giant's club. Armor would have to reflect that.

 

[lukelightning]

...We never had predators like that in the real world, but if large carnosaurs had roamed Middle-Ages Europe, I bet someone would have at least tried it out.

Quick! Someone make the Chivalry and Carnosaurs setting! Dino-mounted knights questing to stop the t-rex that's been terrorizing the countryside! Tricerotops jousts!

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/potm-jun00.html

Metal boat bitten by a crocodile.

Not armor, but still, a bite by a fairly small croc into a metal hull. Scale that up for Mr. Dragon. Suffice it to say that I will NOT be volunteering to put on the "dragon suit" and get lowered into a dragon's lair with a camera.

 

[big dummy]

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/cnhc/potm-jun00.html

Metal boat bitten by a crocodile.

Not armor, but still, a bite by a fairly small croc into a metal hull. Scale that up for Mr. Dragon. Suffice it to say that I will NOT be volunteering to put on the "dragon suit" and get lowered into a dragon's lair with a camera.

Thats a pretty cool picture, and rather amazing, but I would still be willing to be thats probably aluminum, I guarantee you it's not tempered steel.

Tempered steel and even iron is some amazingly hard and strong stuff. Much stronger than most people realise.

I think even a large predator would end up unhappy after trying to bite through it. I bet that alligator would break it's jaw and / or teeth before puncturing a tempered steel vambrace let alone breast plate. (of course he could always just seize it and roll over and over until the arm came off...)

I believe the best European body armor that existed historically could withstand the attack of any of the numerous quite fearsome predators which exist in the real world, including bears, tigers, lions, wolves, sharks and even 20 foot saltwater crocodiles.

(I'm not so sure about an elephant or a rhino though)

Having said that, I grant you in D&D there are monsters considerably larger than any of the above, some with magical powers. Luckily for the denizins of D&D lands they are fairly few and far between

I don't think any body armor anyone could invent could hold up to a 150' dragon.

What I bet you would see if there were dragons like that in the Real World are some really interesting war machines of the type Leonardo Davinchi experimented with. Self propelled armored turtles with all sorts of torsion powered ballistae, greek fire projectors, and plenty of spikes. Maybe even things like pincers and blades (they were able to accomplish some pretty amazing things with clockwork and gears in those days.)

I bet you would see some pretty fantastic dragon hunting machinery, and a whole different type of fortification for castles.

I wouldn't put my money on the dragons either, humans are like something in between fire ants and really, really mean monkeys....with tools. They are incredibly persistant and hostile and endlessly inventive and no species on earth has even come close to standing up to them.

BD

 

[lukelightning]

I believe the best European body armor that existed historically could withstand the attack of any of the numerous quite fearsome predators which exist in the real world, including bears, tigers, lions, wolves, sharks and even 20 foot saltwater crocodiles.

If you mean "resist as in avoid getting punctured" then possibly yes. If you mean "resist as in keeping the person alive" then the answer is a resounding no. A lion or especially a bear could easily produce enough force to affect the joints of the armor and possibly pull it apart. You know Project Grizzly? This guy has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to make a grizzly-proof suit, with limited success.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Quick! Someone make the Chivalry and Carnosaurs setting! Dino-mounted knights questing to stop the t-rex that's been terrorizing the countryside! Tricerotops jousts!

... that would be an AWESOME alternate history setting.

Okay, the catastrophy that wiped out the dinosaurs? Never happened. but, The ice age did, and without the extra greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere released by the impact of the comet, it allowed the ice age to go on a lot longer.

Mankind evolved, and learned how to use tools. They moved southward to where game was more prevalant, along with the ever-present dinosaur threat. However, man used their superior brains to conquer and domesticate the savage beasts.

Gotta have other races... okay... the Neanderthals, who evolved alongside man. They were bigger than humans, roughly equal in terms of tools, but humans out-competed them in real life... in this world, the neanderthals (Who call themselves something appropriate: like... "the Dashin") Yeah, i can see that. "I'm playing a Dashian Cleric" Of course, Dashin would get a bonus to one side of their stats, and a penalty to another... maybe Str and Wis? They are allways so sure of themselves...

And... some more variety... Umn, Lessee... in the americas, particularly, central america, they discovered a fossil of a avian species that had a second set of talons instead of wings. Maybe a bird-people evolved in central america? Give 'em Incan flavor. They worship the sun and sacrifice things to their god as part of the flavor.

And we need something that's analogis for the darker aspects of humanity... what about a reptiloid people? lizardfolk, only more humanoid, less reptilian. Nah... we'll include those in an expansion.

So, the humans dominate the dinosaurs, and begin establishing feudal societies. Smaller dinos are farmed for their meat, larger ones are used in war. and wars are plentiful.