Top 10 odd D&D weapons

[woodelf]

Also, maybe I was misunderstanding, but didn't you mean that particular weapon types would be more effective vs certain armor types not armor classes. That's what I meant by the Monster Manual getting more complicated.

After all, a creature might have +5 Natural Armor because it's like a rhino and has a really thick hide - making it susceptable to slashing weapons and resistant to bludgeoning - or it might have a chitinous shell like a bug - making it highly resistant to slashing but susceptable to piercing. Even though they both have the same armor bonus, the adjustments by weapon type are changed.

I think the best way to do this is AC based on weapon types. A creature's AC already has at least 3 values (regular, touch, and flat-footed), you just further break it down into vs. slashing, vs. piercing, and vs. bludgeoning. So if someone attacks you with a longsword, you report your slashing AC; if they come at you with a flail, you report your bludgeoning AC; and if they come at you with a glowing hand, you report your touch AC.

That's what we did for nearly a decade with AD&D2, and it worked out fine. 99% of the time, a player knew which AC score to use based on the GM's description of the attack, and in those rare instances when it wasn't clear, the GM just had to say "what's your bludgeoning AC" instead of "what's your AC"--essentially no difference in speed of play. It's not super-detailed, but it's something, and easy to implement. Much easier than per-weapon or per-armor-type modifiers.

And, I've a sneaking suspicion that "they" might be in the majority of gamers. Those who want historical accuracy in a fantasy RPG are quite possibly in a minority. If that is true, then having variant combat rules as an add on is a good idea.

More importantly, i think that those who want historical accuracy in a fantasy RPG have long since given up D&D for other RPGs that are at least closer.

 

[big dummy]

I'm always disappointed by the fact that whenever anyone tries to improve the realism of any RPG, they always concentrate on the damage model. Hit points have problems, (especially if you let them get up into the triple digits and beyond) but IMO getting overly involved in the damage model is entering a realm of diminishing returns. It'a kind of game designers trap.

Given the lethality of most medieval weapons, a real hit means ether you are killed, maimed, or it's just a scratch. Armor protects you from damage, and historically it worked really well. Hit points represent your ability to avoid that killing or maiming blow, at least for a while.

The real point is though, the 'reform' area ignored by most game deisgners which would actually be much more profitable are the mechanics of the fight itsself. Why get bogged down into exactly how many tendons are cut or how many bones are smashed, when it's much more fun, and much more tactical and interactive, to actually play around with the combat mechanics instead, the actual fighting mechanics.

BD

 

[lukelightning]

Ok, since the topic of armor has been brought up, I want to point out a silly armor: Studded leather.

I don't mind the concept (leather armor reinforced with metal), but I've yet to see a satisfactory representation of it; leather armor with sparse metal studs is how it's normally portrayed, as if a 1 inch diameter stud every 6 inches of armor is going to do anything.

 

[genshou]

Ok, since the topic of armor has been brought up, I want to point out a silly armor: Studded leather.

I don't mind the concept (leather armor reinforced with metal), but I've yet to see a satisfactory representation of it; leather armor with sparse metal studs is how it's normally portrayed, as if a 1 inch diameter stud every 6 inches of armor is going to do anything.

Yeah, I've never seen studded leather outside of a D&D book. Did it ever really exist?

 

[lukelightning]

Yeah, I've never seen studded leather outside of a D&D book. Did it ever really exist?

You obviously haven't been to any, um Adult clothing stores. Plenty of studded leather stuff there. Come to think of it, lots of punk stuff is studded leather.

 

[genshou]

Simply having all piercing weapons halve the armour DR works just fine. I've yet to apply a single exception to that rule (even the lucerne hammer is a piercing weapon).

Could a tyrannosaurus bite through field plate? They had teeth the size of bananas and a jaw a lot bigger than an alligator's. I would imagine that they couldn't actually bite through field plate in most cases, but the crushing force would still be enough to kill the knight inside. I think with dragons it could even be the same way. Damage to someone wearing armour doesn't necessarily meant the armour has been chopped asunder. When a slashing weapon deals enough damage to overcome armour hardness, I describe it as hitting the armour with enough force to transfer the impact into the flesh beneath.

As for the part about adding reach to weapons, then you have to get into factoring weapon speed as well. And that's a rant I don't think we need to see right now.

 

[Rolzup]

I'd really, really like to see a crocodile bite through about a 3-4mm tempered steel breastplate ...

Apparently their bite pressure has been determined to be about 2500 lbs. Significantly more than the Great White Shark, with a mere 600 lbs. Bit of a surprise, that -- I though Sharks were top of the heap.

No idea how that would penetrate steel, but this much I can say for sure: I don't want to be bitten by a croc no matter WHAT I happen to be wearing. And I shudder to think how much pressure a dragon copuld bring to bear. Even if he can't bite through the armor, the guy wearing it is going to have his day pretty well ruined.

Actually, he continued, here's a bit from a newspaper article that I just found....

Australian crocodiles can attain 20 feet in length. They are the direct link to Sarcosuchus imperator, which roamed Africa 140-million years ago. Paleontologists believe they grew to 40 feet and ate dinosaurs. Extrapolating bite measurements from alligators, Vliet and colleagues believe the ancient crocodile bit with 18,000 pounds of pressure - roughly the weight of a Mack truck.

To which I can only say: God. Damn. I don't care how damned good your armor is. Of course, if you're wearing spiked armor, all bets are off!

 

[genshou]

You obviously haven't been to any, um Adult clothing stores. Plenty of studded leather stuff there. Come to think of it, lots of punk stuff is studded leather.

Umm... yeah. We're talking about real, functional medieval armour here, not your alternative lifestyle.

 

[big dummy]

Yeah, I've never seen studded leather outside of a D&D book. Did it ever really exist?

Right, I think again this is something a slayer fan was more likely to wear than an actual knight

Most people believe "Studded leather" is a mistaken interpretation of brigantine, a popular type of armor which did actually exist in widespread use from around the 13th century through the late Reniassance.

Brigantine was usually a vest or jack, made of alternating layers of leather or cloth, with iron plates underneath. The plates would be affixed to the leather by studs. Thus to the uninitiated it looked like "studded leather". It was actually far more effective as protection.

But just as "splint" mail existed as limb armor but was never (to my knowlege) used as torso protection let alone made into an entire "suit", "studded leather" would normally only be worn as torso armor.

BD

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't mind the concept (leather armor reinforced with metal), but I've yet to see a satisfactory representation of it; leather armor with sparse metal studs is how it's normally portrayed, as if a 1 inch diameter stud every 6 inches of armor is going to do anything.

It did exist, but artist depictions of it are pretty off. The studs were typically every .5" to 1.5" apart, more like you'd see on Rob Halford in the days before he left Judas Priest. It was pretty decent at turning slashing attacks, but very little else.

The problem is there are very few examples of it that have survived. Unlike leather armor, the backing for studded leather is soft leather, and it has a tendency to rot, leaving behind scraps or in extreme cases, just a pile of rivets. It would also need significant repairs after almost any encounter, which wasn't much of a problem, since repairs would be cheap.