Torg and D20 Modern

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Why Torg D20?
If you have the rulebooks and supplement, play the "original" Torg - the system worked very well (and I don`t think a D20 version will be better).
If you don`t have it... Well, you will be unable to really play Torg, so it will just be a homebrew version of a similar concept...

Remember: D20 Modern is D20 for campaigns in modern or near-future settings.
But Torg is a campaign setting, in which ALL kinds of Technology (and Magic) exist. And it is a system where you are able to have a fight between a heavy cybered man from the cyberpapacy against an elven warrior using a Longsword and call it fair!

Though, there are some concepts in Torg you should adapt for your own campaign, even if you don`t use it as "rules" in a strict sense - like subplot cards - imagine in your campaign any of these cards appear. Be sure you have a subplot for it! (Especially often unused things like "Romance" come to mind)

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Gargoyle]

Why Torg D20?

If you have the rulebooks and supplement, play the "original" Torg - the system worked very well (and I don`t think a D20 version will be better).
If you don`t have it... Well, you will be unable to really play Torg, so it will just be a homebrew version of a similar concept...

D20 Torg would be cool for many of the same reasons you would want to convert any other aging combined RPG setting/system:

1. It would be easier for new players to learn d20 Torg than the old system. It's like pulling teeth to get my players to try something other than D&D, much less a non-d20 system.

2. Many people, some who posted above, loved the Torg campaign, not the system.

3. While I agree that the Torg system ran very well, it wasn't perfect and could use some improvement. A new version of the system could work even better. And d20 Modern could be used to build it.

4. Homebrew or not, if it's what I'm after, that's what I'll do. It's a hobby for me, after all, and building it is part of the fun.

Remember: D20 Modern is D20 for campaigns in modern or near-future settings.
But Torg is a campaign setting, in which ALL kinds of Technology (and Magic) exist. And it is a system where you are able to have a fight between a heavy cybered man from the cyberpapacy against an elven warrior using a Longsword and call it fair!

In d20 modern, it would be easier to match an elven warrior with a longsword against a cybernetic agent of the Church Police, even if you threw in magic, psionics, etc. The CR system is by no means perfect, but there was no such system in Torg. (Although I believe there was an article on balancing encounters in an issue of Infiniverse or a later supplement.) And d20 Modern can handle magic, psionics, high tech, super heroes, etc, though it of course needs expanding; it's just a base.

Though, there are some concepts in Torg you should adapt for your own campaign, even if you don`t use it as "rules" in a strict sense - like subplot cards - imagine in your campaign any of these cards appear. Be sure you have a subplot for it! (Especially often unused things like "Romance" come to mind)

Mustrum Ridcully

I totally agree. That's one reason d20 Torg is a good idea. You could take parts of it, like the drama deck or subplots, or just psionic powers, spells, gadget rules, martial art rules, equipment, yadda yadda yadda, and seamlessly insert them into your D&D, d20 Modern, or Spycraft game.

I have no doubt there are others who love Torg like it is and have no interest in a d20 version of Torg. But making d20 Torg wouldn't hurt them. If someone did it, it would give them new campaign material, something they haven't had for years.

BTW: I wouldn't think of running d20 Torg without the drama deck or subplots... There are a lot of non-d20 things that I would convert. Playing Torg without the drama deck would be like playing D&D without dice...

All of the above IMO coming from a self professed Torg fanboy of course.

 

[herald]

I'm with Gargoyle on this one.

Think of it this way. "Snowcrash" is a great novel. One of my favorites. It was originally written in English. But it has been translated into other languages as well.

Certainly it wasn't necessary to translate it into other languages, but it made it accessable to more readers because it was.

I think that Torg was a great game setting, I just couldn't get my players to play it. Is that a failing of my players to adapt. Perhaps.

But then again, not all who play games want enjoy learning whole new rules sets. And in the end, its about fun. If they think they won't have fun before they show up, chances are they won't try to show up.

Converting "Torg" to D20 is not about disrespecting the original designers or ownersof the game, it is about bringing it to a new realm of players.

 

[Gargoyle]

I just returned from Russia to adopt a baby girl, so I have spent som time there. Your right, it is ripe for use. Boy, the stories I could tell.

Congratulations on the little one. Tell your stories if you have time.

I was considering a two pulp fiction realities. One paperback novel area and one comic book area.

My concern about starting agian with differant villians is that I don't think that I could do them justice, and I want to give the fiction a little more updated feel. I would like to see the cyber areas to be more like "Snow Crash" instead of "1984" meets "Terminator" and gets religion. The concept of the Cyberpope was fantastic, ( I really liked the transformation of him in the novels), but part of that reality doesn't really ring true to me any more. I should rethink him somemore. Maybe I should make him more subtle. A big part of me thinks that he would be much more powerful if he came to America instead of Europe. I think that he could sway Americans much easier. (Boy, that doesn't sound right does it. No offense to my fellow Americans.)

None taken here. I think though that he would have a hard time taking over most of America. I could see the Cyberpapacy reality popping up all over the place, just like most religions, and taking a foothold via the Internet/Godnet everywhere. Cyberpapacy missionaries would be all over the place. And I really think the Cyberpope would target the Vatican first though to get some legitimacy. (Can't remember if he actually did that in the old campaign) The true Pope would probably have to flee Rome, at least until it's freed by some Storm Knights, and the Cyberpapacy would be a tough cosm to defeat, since it would be spread out, yet would be able to marshal forces quickly through the Godnet.

Nippon Tech was another thing that didn't work for me. It sure didn't seem like thay were like they were 1000 years in the future. I'd almost like to replace them with some kind of mecha system. Perhaps pit them against the Space Gods.

Mechas! That's a good idea for them. I think techologically Nippon Tech was supposed to be just ahead of us, but adding mechas would make a lot of sense in any case. Adding some Godzilla sized monsters would be a good reason for mechas to exist in the first place... you wouldn't really have to replace them though. Their technology could still be somewhere ahead of us, but not as fantastic as the Cyberpapacy, except with respect to mechas, which the CP wouldn't be able to produce (world laws might be needed to enable the creation of mechas). I really like the treachery and corporate aspects of that setting. The only thing about it is that I don't think there was enough Hong Kong action film influence. More wuxia would have been better.

 

[herald]

Well, most of my time was spent in Perm. It's an area about the size of Texas, Due east of Moscow. The city of Perm is in the center of the region and the people there were pretty nice.

I could go on. But I guess I would have to post the tread over in story hour.

 

[herald]

OK, I found WEG's web site and spent about $130 bucks to get just about every single publication for Torg. ( $10 fo the starter set, $2 for all the other game suplements) It was a huge hall!

So now I'm reading it and some of the things that occur to me is that much of it doesn't have to be translated. Characters that choose to be part of a d20 class have special stat based feats much like Torg does. The cards were an optional part of the game, but could be reworked. (Haven't really gave it to much of a look yet.)

The main translation seems to be dealing with posibility points and how they interact with d20 rules.

But let me back up and say this. For those who have played Torg, what would you keep and what would you do away with rules wise?

Just so people know where i'm comming from, I'm considering doing a D20 Torg. It would be as if the earlier campaign had never happened, and I might consider totally differant Highlords and/or placements of altered reality zones. (I'm thinking of putting something new like a weird/wild, wild west area in the American west. Something like Deadlands, but more mad scientist than bunches of undead .)

So, any thoughts out there?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Some things from Torg I would keep:
The Cards, especially for subplots. They cause more work when designing an adventure, but you become more flexible, you can create "arch-nemisis" to "romances".

Possibilities:
They are an important part of the Torg-Concept (especially the Background). Possiblilites can be done in 2 differend ways - like the action points of D20 Modern, or like Rerolls. The action point system of D20 Modern is nearer to the original concept, that especially allowed you to use the points to augment good results.

Mechanics for Tricks, Taunts & so on:
You must have this for the ultimate "Torg-Feeling"

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Ascending Crane]

Herald -

I'm a huge, huge HUGE fan of Torg - I still have all the books in my closet.

I'd love to work with you on bringing Torg to d20.

The first and most important two aspects of Torg are the Drama Deck and the Possibility Points.

The Drama Deck can be easily done - check out the thread on SpyCraft where I have made some Chase Cards.

Possibility Points are another matter. I feel that what d20 Modern uses is not as powerful as PP's from Torg. In Torg, they play a much larger part than an occasional bit of 'luck'. I feel that the SpyCraft action dice might be more appropriate, with a bit of tweaking.

After those two important issues, we can tackle:

* Reality Storm d20 Mechanics
* PrC's
* Stats for Reality Shards
* Is the Gaunt Man epic level???

etc, etc.

 

[Voneth]

herald,

I am just curious why you chose d20 Modern specificaly. I had a lot of cross genre fun with d20 Deadlands for a while. After getting Mutants and Masterminds game, however, things got a lot easier genre wise.

Even the fun of having your equipment be faulty in other realities could be easily done as an assigned flaw to your eqiupment.

Psion should have a review of the game up this week and said that it meshes with other d20 games more than most people think.

 

[herald]

IMHO all high lords are Epic level.

But, right now if you wanted to go to print with it, epic levels are right out.

I agree with you on the Possibility Points, but I would change what they could do for you. After all you get a bonus to your stats every four levels, it could easily get out of hand if you allow people to buy up thier stats with posiblity points.

But you could beef up what D20M offers and make it very close to what Torg offered.

Base characters are what concern me the most.

I would suggest the d20 modern character types for core earth.

Aylse characters should be like D&D characters, (not sure what kind of editing they would need.

Deadlands has a Mad Scientist type already for D20. That should be a start for what we need for wierd science.

There has been some cyber stuff made for d20 in Dragonstar and a few other sources.

Reality shards and storms should be brought over.

Drama Decks do offer some really cool stuff. But I think that a with or without option should be done. I would also say that perhaps the deck should be open ended, and customizable. (not sure how to do that.)

we should stay in touch. Maybe I should open upa thread in the conversion area.